Has increased ethnic diversity improved the quality of life of Minneapolis/Minnesota? (St. Paul: rent, violent crime)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by LM1

Its pretty widely accepted that the "Chicagoization" of Minneapolis in the 80's bears a direct corollary to the extreme tightening of welfare restrictions in- *drumroll* - Chicago.

It's what caused this:

Wow. Any proof I provide won't change the fact that you see this as a one-sided thing.

[LM1]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

Wow. Any proof I provide won't change the fact that you see this as a one-sided thing.

You didn't provide proof.
You simply linked to an article that cited one lone anecdote, then went on for the remainder to discuss welfare benefits... You kinda bolstered what I said with that link. Sorry.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by LM1

You didn't provide proof.
You simply linked to an article that cited one lone anecdote, then went on for the remainder to discuss welfare benefits... You kinda bolstered what I said with that link. Sorry.

Did you see all parts? I did and it didn't talk about just welfare. It talked about jobs too and how the people who are on welfare are the people who get the most attention. I'm not denying that alot of blacks move to MPLS for welfare benefits, but that isn't the only thing bringing them there. IN fact, if you listened closely, one part of this so-called "anecdote" says that even welfare was restricted, blacks would continue to move to the Twin Cities because there are jobs there.

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

one part of this so-called "anecdote" says that even welfare was restricted, blacks would continue to move to the Twin Cities because there are jobs there.

It is. Minnesota had a policy that basically said that if you were in the state for one day, then you were considered a resident and therefore, entitled to social benefits. All that has changed over the last eight years or so.

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by questioner2

The media in Minneapolis is always hyping the expanding ethnic diversity of Minnesota. Maybe without meaning to the also denegrade the previous white Scandinavian and German influenced culture of the Twin Cities Metro Area. I see articles all the time in the newspaper and stories on the TV News telling us that Minnesota is now so ethnically diverse and how wonderful this is in comparison to the old days (15 years ago back) when the average Minnesotan was from Scandinavian or German backgrounds.

Was Minnesota actually that bad just a few years ago when it was 95% white? Has the ethnic diversity actually made things so much better?

(As a ethnic minority myself and a long term Minnesota resident, I have no strong opinion my self but wonder if we could discuss it without any racism or political correctness)

Food-wise, it's definitely helped. You can now get Somali, Malaysian, Kurdish, Eritrean, Guyanese, and Salvadoran food in Minneapolis....I wonder if that was possible in 1988 or 1978.

[AQUEMINI331]

*edited by AQUEMINI331*

[AQUEMINI331]

Originally Posted by K Luv

You will meet a lot of people in Minnesota from Chicago, but yes ,a number of blacks do move there from Chicago but I think even more come up from Atlanta.

Really? Don't mean to be stereotypical...................but being black, I know that my people don't like cold weather.


I'm surprised that any black person in Atlanta, that city being the black mecca with warm weather that it is, would even CONSIDER moving to the Twin Cities. Not that the TC are a bad place to be, I just figured that for many blacks, it would simply not be their cup of tea.

Originally Posted by LM1

There were two distinct phases of black migration to Minnesota.

The first was in the 1960's when then mayor of Minneapolis Naftalin (along with the LSS) aggressively courted blacks from the south to move to Minnesota with the promise of jobs and a robust safety net of social services.

The second was in the 1980's and 1990's when other major metro areas (most notably Chicago) enacted tougher welfare reforms, which caused a huge black underclass to move to Minnesota; still to this day, MN has some of the least stringent welfare regulations of any state in the country. It had nothing to do with "jobs" and virtually everything to do with Minnesota handing out free money to almost anyone who asks for it; an enormous cotiere of black Americans who, over generations, have become dependent on such systems for their survival found Minnesota a viable place to live once their funds were cut off elsewhere (this phenomenon has been studied ad-nauseum and Minnesota is pretty much *the* quintessential textbook case)

It is a tremendously difficult question to answer, since our present day sensibilities dictate that "diversity" is supposed to be a good thing, no matter what social costs are attendant to it. When you remove the philosophy from the argument and examine the facts (particularly the crime statistics), its clear as a bell that "diversity" has been an absolute catastrophe for the cities.

We can rue and cry over the socioeconomic precepts that cause crime and why those same dynamics apply to certain minorities at an exacerbated rate, but when examining this question in a purely intellectual, factual and logical vacuum- absent of all philosophy, ideology and "feelings"- the answer is no, Minnesota is most certainly not better off now that it's "more diverse".

Of course, life isn't a purely logical matter. There are legitimate philosophical and idealogical concerns that motivate our societies, so if you ask the question with those things considered, then maybe the answer to some people is yes- Minnesota is better off being "less white". How one answers this question will usually hinge on the how the racial complexion of their own neighborhood has maintained itself over the past couple decades.

I disagree with this argument. It seems to be based on the idea that the majority of black Americans moving to Minnesota, particulary those from Chicago, came because of welfare benefits. I want proof of that fact, otherwise it needs to be thrown out along with your entire argument which appears to be contingent on that one idea.


With that being said.............I will raise the point that others have already raised - I'm sure that there are blacks who move to the TC for JOBS and CAREERS and the opportunities that they provide, and not just welfare benefits. I know that there are some blacks who leech off of welfare, believe me I grew up in the inner city, and I've seen them first hand. There are whites like that too. Welfare in general is a flawed system even after the welfare reforms of the 1990s, but I won't get into all of that. The point is, I'm willing to bet my next five paychecks that most blacks who've moved to MN from Chicago (or anywhere else, really) are NOT welfare cases. They may be poor, but they're not welfare cases. Yes, it is a well documented fact that many did leave here for Minnesota in search of a free ride, but I'm sure most did not. Keep in mind- Chicago has always been a violent city and the 1980s and 1990s were even worse. All of the city's projects were still up, including Cabrini Green, Robert Taylor, etc. Conditions were only getting worse, and many blacks simply sought refuge from the hellhole that many parts of the South and West Sides of Chicago had become. Some fled south from where their families originally hailed from, and still others fled to smaller, relatively safe Midwestern cities (like Minneapolis and St. Paul). Just because they did this does NOT mean that they sought out better welfare benefits. Please get the facts straight. If the facts show that most blacks from Chicago who moved to the TC got on welfare and stayed on it long enough to where you could legitimately say that they were trying to "pimp the system" (let's say, more than 2 years) then I'll shut up. But I don't believe that's true, not at all.



With that being said, I would imagine that the TC are better off being more diverse. I sincerely believe that all cultures of humanity have something positive to offer and something that can be learned by others. That alone makes MN better off for being more diverse. Even the Somali refugees who many in MN seem to look down on have something to offer and something to teach us - they can teach us about the hardiness of the human spirit and the will to survive. They can teach us that even if we come from the worst cesspools on this earth, we can still rise out of that and make something of ourselves and our lives. This board seems to be filled with a lot of hatred and disgust, and unfortunately much of it is borne out of simple misunderstandings and fear of the unknown.



P.S. I'd be more interested in learning about this migration of blacks to MN from the South in the 1960s that you mentioned. Do you have any internet links or sources that elaborate on that, or can you do that yourself?


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[internat]

Do you reckon it is genetic?

Originally Posted by AQUEMINI331

Really? Don't mean to be stereotypical...................but being black, I know that my people don't like cold weather.

[AQUEMINI331]

Originally Posted by internat

Do you reckon it is genetic?

Yeah............I mean, I don't know how true it is scientifically, but most black people tend to believe that we are not very good at dealing with cold whereas white people are. That's why whenever you see a white guy with shorts and sandals on when it's 30 degrees outside you always see a whole bunch of black people making fun of him.


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[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by AQUEMINI331

Yeah............I mean, I don't know how true it is scientifically, but most black people tend to believe that we are not very good at dealing with cold whereas white people are. That's why whenever you see a white guy with shorts and sandals on when it's 30 degrees outside you always see a whole bunch of black people making fun of him.


_

It doesn't apply to everyone. I'm black and I prefer cold weather to summer's heat. To be honest, that is part of why I consider Minnesota as a place to live.