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What was confusing was that you mentioned a buck in the bucket, monthly travels for leisure, mileage accumulation, cabin, and home in AZ. In this context, even if the home is indeed less than $200,000, you are still considered affluent by most people. True middle-class household incomes in the Twin Cities are probably between $55,000 and $120,000. It may not be a lot of money, but that's what being middle-class entails. To me, upper middle-class basically reaches affluent status. But being affluent is not being wealthy and super wealthy, as those are above affluent.
Monthly leisure trips are definitely way beyond middle-class' reach, timewise and moneywise. A lot of babyboomers I know consider themselves affluent. They are well educated, had a successful but not lucrative career, and now retire on a handsome amount of money. They take international vacation(s) each year, sip wine in Napa, visit friends in Boca, donate to political causes, and tour ancient museums in China. But they are not your "affluent" people, though. They share on milkshake on the road. They stay at maybe Best Westerns, occasionally Marriott, but certainly don't mind Country Inn. They also love small BnBs. They have somewhat a distaste for pure luxury and manicured good-looking places. Instead, they like culture, stories, history, and people. You never see them bragging about the Wynn in Vegas. They tell you this small history museum in Ireland on the potato famine, a really good brunch place in Ann Arbor, a concert in Austin, and strange noodles on a back street of Beijing. They are "good middle-class Americans" who wish everybody well.
You still have the wrong perception of me specifically but I highlighted a couple things that I agree with. I charge my business product on my Southwest Airlines Visa. I certianly don't spend $100K plus a year though Visa's with my $$'s. Maybe $12K personally. I might pay $500 a year for airfare total. The rest uses SWA points (which can easily be 8,000-12,000 miles round trip and my wife is my free companion). I stay at Microtel and Best-western. I rent subcompacts at the cheap Fox rental type places. But I do have customers who are factually affluent and I am offered to stay at their home. An 8,000 sq foot home on the ski mountain comes to mind which is a standing offer.
My lake home is a 4000 sq foot lake home that I have rented out in past years (by the week) for up to $4500 with my pontoon boat and fishing boat or $55K a season. I bought a foreclosure in AZ that originally sold for $520K, put in $10K to fix it and another $25K to upgrade it. Then I rented it out by the week for 2 years (15 weeks a year max) that more than paid for my upgrades and repairs. The difference here is I understand how to have other people pay for my vacations and vacation homes. Everything I have is paid for. So I don't need a lot of money. Excluding my daughters $75K a year in dental tuition and R&B, I could live off of renting my lake home and live in AZ. Hence, I don't work hard anymore. When I did work hard, I paid through the nose in taxes (over $100K in federal alone). I concluded I worked my life away while other people coasted. So officially, now I am in the middle class. Now I don't pay squat in taxes. I simply play the game better than most and have a lifestyle that is ideal for myself. Being on a yacht in the Bahama's would be nicer, but I can accept a nice pontoon in northern MN as a substitute. The guy on the yacht is "affluent" while I am middle class. I know several people who are in the same boat (pun intended) as myself. They simply understand the game better than others.
To return to the original question, my parents owned a summer home that was only an hour from St. Paul. We had it from 1953 to 1970. I spent every summer of my youth at the lake and enjoyed it thoroughly. I made friends with the year-round folks and with other summer-only people (including several young ladies that I dated). I often invited friends from the Cities up for weekends. And relatives from Ohio would make an annual August visit which we looked forward to. We were more affluent that most of my friends (although I didn't know it at the time because my father made it very clear that money wasn't something to brag about or flaunt) so we could have taken long vacations. We didn't because my father was an old-school workaholic who didn't like being away from work. After I grew up, I realized that as fortunate as I was as a child, I knew very little about the rest of the country (and world for that matter). So in the 45 years since I left home, I've made it a point (whether I had money or not) to see as much outside Minnesota as possible. In the early years, we would take a tent and spend three weeks on the road using inexpensive campgrounds for overnights. We made it to New England and Eastern Canada one year and the Pacific Northwest and Western Canada two years later using this method. It wasn't until we had been married almost six years before we had enough money to stay in hotels. So one spring we drove to Key West, stopping in Atlanta, Miami Beach, and DisneyWorld.
So I guess the upshot is, the dream childhood of spending all summer at the lake provided me with the wanderlust to explore other places when I was an adult. Friday I leave for a one-week live aboard scuba diving adventure (bucket list item) as a retirement present to myself. I'm spending more than I can truly afford to do this, but dammit, I'm worth it.
To return to the original question, my parents owned a summer home that was only an hour from St. Paul. We had it from 1953 to 1970. I spent every summer of my youth at the lake and enjoyed it thoroughly. I made friends with the year-round folks and with other summer-only people (including several young ladies that I dated). I often invited friends from the Cities up for weekends. And relatives from Ohio would make an annual August visit which we looked forward to. We were more affluent that most of my friends (although I didn't know it at the time because my father made it very clear that money wasn't something to brag about or flaunt) so we could have taken long vacations. We didn't because my father was an old-school workaholic who didn't like being away from work. After I grew up, I realized that as fortunate as I was as a child, I knew very little about the rest of the country (and world for that matter). So in the 45 years since I left home, I've made it a point (whether I had money or not) to see as much outside Minnesota as possible. In the early years, we would take a tent and spend three weeks on the road using inexpensive campgrounds for overnights. We made it to New England and Eastern Canada one year and the Pacific Northwest and Western Canada two years later using this method. It wasn't until we had been married almost six years before we had enough money to stay in hotels. So one spring we drove to Key West, stopping in Atlanta, Miami Beach, and DisneyWorld.
So I guess the upshot is, the dream childhood of spending all summer at the lake provided me with the wanderlust to explore other places when I was an adult. Friday I leave for a one-week live aboard scuba diving adventure (bucket list item) as a retirement present to myself. I'm spending more than I can truly afford to do this, but dammit, I'm worth it.
1) As much as I'd like a cabin, I think I'd feel compelled to go to it on every free weekend instead of exploring other areas. Camping in various state parks, staying at resorts, etc. I think it works better when the cabin is owned by multiple families and they share the costs and book weekends where the cabin is theirs for that weekend. That way you are not so tied to going there all the time.
2) I think cabins have been and still are more for suburbanites. Those who live in the city are more apt to want to stay in the city on the weekends to partake in all there is to do there. Especially in the past decade or so when city life in the Twin Cities has really expanded with all of the theaters, festivals, you name it. Each summer weekend is just packed with things to do. As the younger generation becomes more urban, I think this trend is going to continue. They won't want to miss out on this awesome music festival by trudging up to the cabin once again. And, many are not getting their driver's licenses to even travel up there. And are in college debt and not making good money. As others have said, will they be able to hold onto that family cabin or will the temptation to sell and profit become too great?
I'm stereotyping here, but many cabin owners I know are from the suburbs or exurbs or even other smaller Minnesota towns. Their main hobbies are the outdoor kind. Hunting, fishing, ATV, snowmobile, etc. They may drive into Minneapolis a couple times per year for a game or show at the convention center. That's it. They are content with driving up to the cabin every weekend. This is kind of how things were in MN up until recently. But the younger generation is not so much into that. They need their wi-fi, their socialization, their city life. While they still may love going up to the cabin a couple weekends a year when other family and friends are there, any more than that and they are going to get bored and regret missing all the cool stuff going on in the city.
3) This phenomenon is not unique to MN. Look at all the coastal communities and how many have beach houses they run to on the weekends.
This thread is pretty hilarious as a casual observer. From what I've gathered, OP really wants no answer to the original question. This thread only serves to marginalize those backward hillbillies who dare buy a vacation property and to flex OP's superficial, well traveled muscles.
This thread is pretty hilarious as a casual observer. From what I've gathered, OP really wants no answer to the original question. This thread only serves to marginalize those backward hillbillies who dare buy a vacation property and to flex OP's superficial, well traveled muscles.
That's not true. I am trying to find out other people's opinions. I have stated my preference, but that doesn't mean that I'm "right." That's just my opinion and my lifestyle. I'd like to know why people have their lifestyle to better understand this cultural tradition, where it came from, and where it is going.
1) As much as I'd like a cabin, I think I'd feel compelled to go to it on every free weekend instead of exploring other areas. Camping in various state parks, staying at resorts, etc. I think it works better when the cabin is owned by multiple families and they share the costs and book weekends where the cabin is theirs for that weekend. That way you are not so tied to going there all the time.
2) I think cabins have been and still are more for suburbanites. Those who live in the city are more apt to want to stay in the city on the weekends to partake in all there is to do there. Especially in the past decade or so when city life in the Twin Cities has really expanded with all of the theaters, festivals, you name it. Each summer weekend is just packed with things to do. As the younger generation becomes more urban, I think this trend is going to continue. They won't want to miss out on this awesome music festival by trudging up to the cabin once again. And, many are not getting their driver's licenses to even travel up there. And are in college debt and not making good money. As others have said, will they be able to hold onto that family cabin or will the temptation to sell and profit become too great?
I'm stereotyping here, but many cabin owners I know are from the suburbs or exurbs or even other smaller Minnesota towns. Their main hobbies are the outdoor kind. Hunting, fishing, ATV, snowmobile, etc. They may drive into Minneapolis a couple times per year for a game or show at the convention center. That's it. They are content with driving up to the cabin every weekend. This is kind of how things were in MN up until recently. But the younger generation is not so much into that. They need their wi-fi, their socialization, their city life. While they still may love going up to the cabin a couple weekends a year when other family and friends are there, any more than that and they are going to get bored and regret missing all the cool stuff going on in the city.
3) This phenomenon is not unique to MN. Look at all the coastal communities and how many have beach houses they run to on the weekends.
Several things I'd like to say. First, your third point being people going to beach houses more or less? Beach houses can be in an urban area or a remote area. Also, since they are beach houses, enough urbanites just love the beach, not to mention vacationers. But lakes in northern Minnesota are a different tradition. It is much more of a local tradition that has its roots in Scandinavian culture.
There is indeed a possibility that the cabin lifestyle will be much less popular. People may not have the financial means to do it. Their social lifestyles make them more interested in staying central to the city. I think this crowd is simultaneously interested in nature and wildlife. But there is perhaps a distinction between the cabin lifestyle versus an urbanite's lifestyle of outdoor fun. The cabin lifestyle, after all, has a rural quality.
Another factor is that people marry later and fewer have children. I don't think most people picture a single person or a couple when they think of a cabin lifestyle. Cabins are more for families, kids water fun, parents watching, big family reunions, multiple families going together. There has to be "a social life of scale" to make it fun. A couple without children would more likely want an urban getaway, hiking, exploring the northshore. Why would they sit on the beach of some quiet lake? What do they do? Watch each other? Boredom would quickly consume them. They are also more likely to want to explore the nation and the world. Pack lightly, fly somewhere, rent a car, explore a new country. Weekends in Napa kind of thing. They are also much less likely to spend days at theme parks or Myrtle Beach which offers nothing but the beach.
You are also missing good food when you are up north. No authentic Italian restaurants; no quick buffets at an Indian place. People who are used to urban life may find the rural quality unappealing.
You still have the wrong perception of me specifically but I highlighted a couple things that I agree with. I charge my business product on my Southwest Airlines Visa. I certianly don't spend $100K plus a year though Visa's with my $$'s. Maybe $12K personally. I might pay $500 a year for airfare total. The rest uses SWA points (which can easily be 8,000-12,000 miles round trip and my wife is my free companion). I stay at Microtel and Best-western. I rent subcompacts at the cheap Fox rental type places. But I do have customers who are factually affluent and I am offered to stay at their home. An 8,000 sq foot home on the ski mountain comes to mind which is a standing offer.
My lake home is a 4000 sq foot lake home that I have rented out in past years (by the week) for up to $4500 with my pontoon boat and fishing boat or $55K a season. I bought a foreclosure in AZ that originally sold for $520K, put in $10K to fix it and another $25K to upgrade it. Then I rented it out by the week for 2 years (15 weeks a year max) that more than paid for my upgrades and repairs. The difference here is I understand how to have other people pay for my vacations and vacation homes. Everything I have is paid for. So I don't need a lot of money. Excluding my daughters $75K a year in dental tuition and R&B, I could live off of renting my lake home and live in AZ. Hence, I don't work hard anymore. When I did work hard, I paid through the nose in taxes (over $100K in federal alone). I concluded I worked my life away while other people coasted. So officially, now I am in the middle class. Now I don't pay squat in taxes. I simply play the game better than most and have a lifestyle that is ideal for myself. Being on a yacht in the Bahama's would be nicer, but I can accept a nice pontoon in northern MN as a substitute. The guy on the yacht is "affluent" while I am middle class. I know several people who are in the same boat (pun intended) as myself. They simply understand the game better than others.
Okay. I get what you mean. You have a trajectory of life and it did need some elaboration to make it clear. In short, you were a successful businessman who made a lot of money and paid a lot of tax. You didn't want to that anymore. Your game now is to enjoy life, live on less, and still live quite happily (based on your success in the past).
This may be off topic. This generation have somewhat a negative view toward work in general. They are not getting great jobs; they are sick of the bad conditions; they are sort of giving up on it; they know that probably this country's economy won't be robust anytime soon. They are using moralistic thinking, not realistic thinking. But it is still quite important to know that the world is about making ends meet. The view that money/productivity isn't important is foolish and illusionary. Those who know how to play the game (basically being money smart) will get ahead of others.
I have always been curious why Americans talk about their "vacation home" in a different place where they vacation "every winter" or "every summer." In Minnesota, people talk about their vacation home up north and in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area.
I enjoy travel more than vacations. Instead of "vacate," I fill my travels with adventurous activities, cultural exploration, architectural beauty, and food. To me, visiting the same place for a second time loses that initial excitement. Of course I have my favorite places I don't mind returning anytime. But I'd like to make a conscious effort in seeing a variety of places, new places, in the U.S. and around the world.
Why would I return to the same vacation home each time, when there is so much out there that I haven't seen and experienced yet? I would rather rent a condo each time and explore a new area. Or perhaps go deep into Peru, Mexico, Costa Rica, or Southeast Asia. Constant change of scenery, a sense of remoteness, and unfamiliarity. I love coming back home with a sense of achievement.
A vacation home/cabin seems dull and un-creative. Minnesotans seem very backward and provincial.
What's your opinions?
So you want us to explain to you why people like and enjoy different things?
I don't quite understand this question. Is it a question? Seems more like an insult for some weird reason.
Okay. I get what you mean. You have a trajectory of life and it did need some elaboration to make it clear. In short, you were a successful businessman who made a lot of money and paid a lot of tax. You didn't want to that anymore. Your game now is to enjoy life, live on less, and still live quite happily (based on your success in the past).
.
Exactly! Money didn't make me happy. When I made 5X more money, I didn't enjoy life. I simply had a better garage sale. "Stuff" is extremely over-rated! Going to every one of my Kid's events and shaping them into quality people is what I call wealth. Spending time with my family trumps a fat bank account.
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I simply play the game better than most and have a lifestyle that is ideal for myself. Being on a yacht in the Bahama's would be nicer, but I can accept a nice pontoon in northern MN as a substitute. The guy on the yacht is "affluent" while I am middle class. I know several people who are in the same boat (pun intended) as myself. They simply understand the game better than others.
