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How does one make the jump that because one enjoys diversity in a neighborhood then one doesn't like or is "trashing on" white people?
NewEntrepreneur never mentioned racial diversity in neighborhoods; he/she mentioned political correctness. If politically correct people honestly think that it's okay to bash whites, then yes, they are hypocrites. The primary reason of political correctness is to avoid offending people, correct? If politically correct people disregard Euro-Americans, then that is hypocritical of them.
NewEntrepreneur never mentioned racial diversity in neighborhoods; he/she mentioned political correctness. If politically correct people honestly think that it's okay to bash whites, then yes, they are hypocrites. The primary reason of political correctness is to avoid offending people, correct? If politically correct people disregard Euro-Americans, then that is hypocritical of them.
I don't think it was something that even came up though.
When "Euro-Americans" have thriving ethnic neighborhoods, then they are neat too. I like the Italian Market area of Philadelphia (although it has become more Mexican over the years, ironically). And there are still interesting Eastern European blocks - but these seem to be on the way out.
I would really like it if there were more places like that. Back in the 30's, my family members worked at German businesses in New York City. Then they all got office jobs and moved out of the city...and even though there were still Germans who lived in the neighborhoods, it was really Latin Americans that took over the retail and dining of the neighborhood - which is often what gives the neighborhood its flavor, despite the demographics of the area..
Tis the way of life though. I'm game for German neighborhoods, British neighborhoods, Irish neighborhoods - just give me the directions and I'm there.
I grew up near a lot of PA Dutch towns. And those little German towns are really neat places, and way more interesting than target and leeann chin strip malls of the Twin Cities metro, even though they are almost all white.
Do places like that exist in Twin Cities Metro? I know there is the random stores here or there, but as far as neighborhoods within the cities or surburban towns, I was not really aware of any.
NewEntrepreneur never mentioned racial diversity in neighborhoods; he/she mentioned political correctness. If politically correct people honestly think that it's okay to bash whites, then yes, they are hypocrites. The primary reason of political correctness is to avoid offending people, correct? If politically correct people disregard Euro-Americans, then that is hypocritical of them.
But you're clearly not politically correct and have no aspirations to be, so what's your point?
I love how up in arms 'non-PC people' (how's that for a term?) can get about these matters and I'm always entertained by their efforts to invent a reverse-racist "struggle" and equate it to the plight of any number of groups that actually experienced opression and continue to be disciminated against in our country.
But you're clearly not politically correct and have no aspirations to be, so what's your point?
I love how up in arms 'non-PC people' (how's that for a term?) can get about these matters and I'm always entertained by their efforts to invent a reverse-racist "struggle" and equate it to the plight of any number of groups that actually experienced opression and continue to be disciminated against in our country.
Do you REALLY see that much discrimination in the Twin Cities though? Is there REALLY an issue with discrimination on the whole? I guess in my day to day life it just isn't an issue. You don't see segregated groups in the schools, the kids are just kids and the color of their skin isn't an issue. Going out to eat, there are plenty of tables with "mixed races" enjoying an evening out together. Yes, there are still a bigoted individuals but do you really think on the whole, people in MN even think twice about the color of someone's skin?
I do have to say that Christianity is still an acceptable group to discriminate against, however. No one thinks twice about removing "Christmas" from stores, schools, etc. but schools/business bend over backwards to accommodate Ramadan, for example.
Do you REALLY see that much discrimination in the Twin Cities though? Is there REALLY an issue with discrimination on the whole? I guess in my day to day life it just isn't an issue. You don't see segregated groups in the schools, the kids are just kids and the color of their skin isn't an issue. Going out to eat, there are plenty of tables with "mixed races" enjoying an evening out together. Yes, there are still a bigoted individuals but do you really think on the whole, people in MN even think twice about the color of someone's skin?
Well, you seemed to "think twice" by noticing that persons of color and whites are now able to dine out together .
But more seriously, it's interesting you didn't mention the workplace, and that's the area that I have the most experience witnessing (in my professional life, not personally) what I view as discrimination on a relatively frequent basis, and where most of it I would argue now occurs in the country- specifically with local hiring managers and whom they choose to fill vacant positions (e.g. seeing white persons have a much easier time getting hired than persons of color that are as or more qualified).
In the context of modern Minnesota I find it pretty funny for someone to complain that Christians are discriminated against. How exactly are people bending backwards to accommodate Ramadan to a greater extent than Christmas? Christmas is a federal holiday, most people get the day off, kids get a "winter" vacation (that just happens to center around Christmas), and you certainly can't miss the decorations.
Bashing Muslims and inferring that they're terrorists also is something that you DO see sometimes in the Twin Cities (and the country, for that matter). It's not just a few lunatic fringe bigots who feel able to do so, either. Anti-Semitism seems to be fading, but it's still around (look at the people who say SLP is "too" Jewish); no surprise, given that one of Minneapolis' embarrassing pieces of history is as one of the most anti-Semitic cities in the country. And meanwhile Christians are what.... complaining that people can't put up nativity scenes in schools or store clerks say "happy holidays?" I think Muslims in the Twin Cities probably face the greatest discrimination of all, especially if they're also Somali.
I think on the whole people here aren't racist, but it's equally silly to suggest that MN's white residents are experiencing any kind of "reverse racism." And yes, I think there is still some racism (even if people don't want to admit it) around; Eden Prairie's current school desegregation battle seems to be clear evidence of that. Reading the comments and following that story makes me a bit sick to my stomach. While some parents, perhaps even most, just don't want to see anything changed because they like their current schools and don't want to rock the boat, there have been a lot of comments thrown around that clearly indicate racial (or in some cases it may be socioeconomic, as in the woman who said she moved to EP to avoid the "low-income element", but in EP as in most of the Twin Cities today, much of the socioeconomic inequity follows along racial lines) tensions. I agree that most individuals aren't racist, but that doesn't mean that people today aren't still impacted by the systematic institutional racism of years gone by, and to suggest that today's white residents are experiencing anything on that level is to ignore the realities of the past.
To FamousBlueRaincoat -- no, there are no intact white ethnic neighborhoods that I know of. Definitely individual stores and churches, but not entire neighborhoods, at least not at the moment.
But as I had said earlier, no one is trying to "bash" MN's white people, just point out that if you take a group of five fourth-generation American Minnesotan white people with ancestors from Norway, Germany, Switzerland, and England, then while they may bring other forms of diversity to the table, they don't each count as a different ethnic group when considering the neighborhood's racial/ethnic diversity. Just as a group of five African American families with roots long in the United States wouldn't count as being from five different countries in Africa.
Do you REALLY see that much discrimination in the Twin Cities though? Is there REALLY an issue with discrimination on the whole? I guess in my day to day life it just isn't an issue. You don't see segregated groups in the schools, the kids are just kids and the color of their skin isn't an issue. Going out to eat, there are plenty of tables with "mixed races" enjoying an evening out together. Yes, there are still a bigoted individuals but do you really think on the whole, people in MN even think twice about the color of someone's skin?
I do have to say that Christianity is still an acceptable group to discriminate against, however. No one thinks twice about removing "Christmas" from stores, schools, etc. but schools/business bend over backwards to accommodate Ramadan, for example.
I actually found the Twin Cities to be more racist than I thought it would be. Granted, I come from a part of the country where there have been quite a few ugly incidents (Berks County, Lehigh County, Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania).
But I was expecting the Twin Cities to be more utopian when I moved there. And I found that there was quite a bit of hostility, particularly against Somali people - especially in private conversations. But even publicly - one time on the bus, I remember a guy screaming at and mocking a Somali woman for her clothing, and everyone on the bus just ignored it. Even the bus driver, who was about 5 feet away. The woman eventually just got off the bus to get another one. It was pretty shameful. I guess I could have done something - but I had just moved to the Twin Cities and was honestly just in shock that nobody else did anything.
LOL @ perceived Christian oppression. My father, who is a minister of a Reformed, Calvinist church, and politically conservative, also always enjoys a good LOL @ perceived Christian oppression. He finds it tiresome. It...just...doesn't....exist. If you think discrimination is a multi-million dollar business not saying Merry Christmas, then you obviously don't know what discrimination is. Lots of people from the old, hardcore, protestant churches don't care one bit about the corporate, commercial aspects of Christmas going away. It was always just a money-making scheme by corporations to subvert people's faith anyway.
Well, you seemed to "think twice" by noticing that persons of color and whites are now able to dine out together .
But more seriously, it's interesting you didn't mention the workplace, and that's the area that I have the most experience witnessing (in my professional life, not personally) what I view as discrimination on a relatively frequent basis, and where most of it I would argue now occurs in the country- specifically with local hiring managers and whom they choose to fill vacant positions (e.g. seeing white persons have a much easier time getting hired than persons of color that are as or more qualified).
I completely disagree! I feel that some places like Target or Best Buy will hire a minority with similar credentials over someone who is white. I'm sure it depends on the company, but I also think it depends on your perspective. The grass truly is always greener on the other side.
Well, you seemed to "think twice" by noticing that persons of color and whites are now able to dine out together .
But more seriously, it's interesting you didn't mention the workplace, and that's the area that I have the most experience witnessing (in my professional life, not personally) what I view as discrimination on a relatively frequent basis, and where most of it I would argue now occurs in the country- specifically with local hiring managers and whom they choose to fill vacant positions (e.g. seeing white persons have a much easier time getting hired than persons of color that are as or more qualified).
I guess I don't see it there because I am "retired" . When I was working employers were actively seeking out "women and minorities' and honestly, there were more cases where a more qualified white male lost out on a job then a woman or minority. Now, these were professional level jobs so I don't really know if that makes a difference or not. It wasn't "rampent" by any means but it did happen.
I guess I am just happy that we don't really experience issues here at all and hopefully the new generation of kids growing into adulthood is the end to any discrimination we do see.
I completely disagree! I feel that some places like Target or Best Buy will hire a minority with similar credentials over someone who is white.
That's because a lot of times the minority has achieved so much with so much less. It comes out in the interview.
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. When I was working employers were actively seeking out "women and minorities' and honestly, there were more cases where a more qualified white male lost out on a job then a woman or minority. Now, these were professional level jobs so I don't really know if that makes a difference or not. It wasn't "rampent" by any means but it did happen.
