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People coming to this country should learn English. To not do so limits what you can do here. I really don't expect older people to learn it well. Learning a new language is very difficult, more so for the elderly. I also do not believe that anyone born and raised here does not speak English. I rarely encounter someone who has been here for years that can't at least speak passable English (there are some exceptions) so I think it is exaggerated to say that people in Miami don't want to learn the language and it is just a tired and often repeated phrase of people who just don't want to hear Spanish. There is freedom of speech and if someone wants to speak Spanish in public they should do so. I do not care if complete strangers do not understand what I am saying. It's none of their business. To speak in a foreign language in a group where some might not understand is rude though. Americans also need to learn other languages. Europeans are very impressive with their linguistic abilities. I have heard better English from some Dutch and Danish people than some Americans. I have also seen the American wanting everyone to speak English abroad. Very annoying. When I meet an "Anglo" american that can speak another language, even with an accent, I am quite impressed. Can be very cute .
PS: Spanish is not an abnormal language in Florida. It was spoken here way before English was ever heard here.
Well said I could have written that post myself. Glad to hear reasonable people are still out there.
I admit, my German is lousy, but whenever I'm in Germany I never have any problem getting service in English.... hmmm.... now who is being rude here? What language do you speak when you're in Sweden, Finland, Norway, or Portugal, etc? That's right ... so quit telling me that Spanish speakers have to speak English in Miami.
I understand it's your opinion. You do understand that learning a new language is extremely difficult so we cannot really expect people to learn Spanish that easily.
As for the original topic press 1 for English, I don't see what's the big deal unless you suffer from arthritis. Some people way overreact just because they hear a phrase in Spanish like "press one for Spanish" It's just a short phrase, get over yourselves and please press the key before you have a heart attack.
The people that can's stand the Spanish language or Spanish last names(and love to quote crimes committed by people with Spanish last names), I hope you leave Miami, Miami north or wherever you live as soon as possible before your blood pressure sends you to the hospital. If Spanish is so insulting to you, get out of here and live a happier life somewhere else. The constant belittling of hispanics is tiring. We are human beings in case you didn't know.
OMG, what are you, the PC police? Yeah I said it, "talking in English like normal people" because in the US, this is normal. Maybe not in Miami but this is normal in most US workplaces.
No , more like the "ignorance " police . If you read my other posts , you will see that I agree that another language should not be forced on people in the US .... but at least one out of three of your posts always have some type of racial or ethnic undertone ... I am sure you are a good person and you are frustrated but you should be more careful with what you write down .... just my opinion .
Whoever thinks Miami or South Florida needs to expand the legal legitimacy of Spanish and Latin culture, we need only look at the failures of Latin-dominated cities like Palermo, Bogota, and Guadalajara and their world class levels of crime, corruption, and poverty.
We should not do anything that encourages more of these impoverished people to come over, which is exactly what palermodudette is proposing. If Miami does what he said, it would be a green light for more and more waves of refugees. If poor immigrants just learned English (like they used to), I would welcome more of them instead of proposing to shut the door on their migrant routes.
Last edited by cuba libre; 09-20-2009 at 03:30 PM..
Whoever thinks Miami or South Florida needs to expand the legal legitimacy of Spanish and Latin culture, we need only look at the failures of Latin-dominated cities like Palermo, Bogota, and Guadalajara and their world class levels of crime, corruption, and poverty.
We should not do anything that encourages more of these impoverished people to come over, which is exactly what palermodudette is proposing. If Miami does what he said, it would be a green light for more and more waves of refugees. If poor immigrants just learned English (like they used to), I would welcome more of them instead of proposing to shut the door on their migrant routes.
Younger people still learn the language, it's always the oldest who have the hardest time and sometimes never learn it. I'm sure Doggiebus mother wasn't in her 50's when she arrived to the USA.
Most people in this thread have zero experience in learning a second language fluently as an adult(check language fluency for an accurate definition, knowing how to say "hello" and "please" does not count) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluency and I think this includes Palermodude who learned English and Spanish as mother tongues (learning Portuguese and Italian when you already speak Spanish does not count). They just think it's a matter of picking up a book and in a month or two you're ready. It doesn't happen that way. It takes many, but many years to be fluent in a second language even if you are the reincarnation of Albert Einstein.
For your piece of mind, most people who learn both English and Spanish as infants, will have an easier time speaking English anyways. English is a much easier language, the only problem with it, it's the accent which is very difficult to get rid of if you learn English after you learn to read & write. It's the way the brain works. If some white Americans didn't make fun of accents or grammar errors, maybe more people would be speaking English in the first place. That's why education is also needed for some Americans to be more tolerant of other cultures.
Last edited by ♥♥PRINC3Ss♥♥; 09-20-2009 at 03:53 PM..
Younger people still learn the language, it's always the oldest who have the hardest time and sometimes never learn it. I'm sure Doggiebus mother wasn't in her 50's when she arrived to the USA.
Most people in this thread have zero experience in learning a second language fluently as an adult(check language fluency for a accurate definition) Fluency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and I think this includes Palermodude who learned English and Spanish as mother tongues (learning Portuguese and Italian when you already speak Spanish does not count). They just think it's a matter of picking up a book and in a month or two you're ready. It doesn't happen that way. It takes many, but many years to be fluent in a second language even if you are the reincarnation of Albert Einstein.
For your piece of mind, most people who learn both English and Spanish as infants, will have an easier time speaking English anyways. English is a much easier language, the only problem with it, it's the accent which is very difficult to get rid of if you learn English after you learn to read & write. It's the way the brain works.
I definitely agree with you here...Children of immigrants born in the U.S. will grow up speaking flawless, perfect Engish, albeit with a Miami twist.
However, there are tons of people who stubbornly refuse to speak English in Miami, much less learn it. Almost all were born somewhere else, as indicated by Miami's staggering foreign born population.
Also, the Canada bilingual model is a complete failure; just because bilingualism exists in Quebec does not mean it is a success. There is tons of animosity in Canada.
Younger people still learn the language, it's always the oldest who have the hardest time and sometimes never learn it. I'm sure Doggiebus mother wasn't in her 50's when she arrived to the USA.
Most people in this thread have zero experience in learning a second language fluently as an adult(check language fluency for a accurate definition) Fluency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and I think this includes Palermodude who learned English and Spanish as mother tongues (learning Portuguese and Italian when you already speak Spanish does not count). They just think it's a matter of picking up a book and in a month or two you're ready. It doesn't happen that way. It takes many, but many years to be fluent in a second language even if you are the reincarnation of Albert Einstein.
For your piece of mind, most people who learn both English and Spanish as infants, will have an easier time speaking English anyways. English is a much easier language, the only problem with it, it's the accent which is very difficult to get rid of if you learn English after you learn to read & write. It's the way the brain works. If some white Americans didn't make fun of accents or grammar errors, maybe more people would be speaking English in the first place. That's why education is also needed for some Americans to be more tolerant of other cultures.
Wow ... good post .... I am torn here as for once I agree with most of what Cuba Libre is implying .. but you are correct also us non Hispanic whites can be intolerant with people from other countries and we assume that all newcomers should learn accentless English and in a few weeks .. I especially love when we say our grand parents came here from country X and learned the language what we fail to grasp is that when our grandparents or great grandparents came here you did not have cable tv , the internet or even the variety of radio in their native languages that you have now . I am of Italian origen and my Grandmother spoke Italian and very little English until the day she died ... she was 49 when she immigrated to the US and always complained that it was tough for her to learn English properly but at the same time she never expected anyone to learn Italian or did not give anyone attitude for not speaking it . Lolita 305 you make a good point and yes us non Hispanics probably need to be a little more tolerant , but new comers should make more of an effort to learn English .. I have an employee in our Boca raton office who's half brother came here from Cuba in 1992 and still does not speak English . It is a tough call and no one wants to look intolerant or bigoted , but I can understand Cuba Libre and others frustration .
I definitely agree with you here...Children of immigrants born in the U.S. will grow up speaking flawless, perfect Engish, albeit with a Miami twist.
However, there are tons of people who stubbornly refuse to speak English in Miami, much less learn it. Almost all were born somewhere else, as indicated by Miami's staggering foreign born population.
Also, the Canada bilingual model is a complete failure; just because bilingualism exists in Quebec does not mean it is a success. There is tons of animosity in Canada.
Again good post .... we have an office in Montreal and I am good friends with our national sales manager for Canada who is based there .. he is originally from Vancouver and he does agree that there is much tension and animosity in Montreal .. it is even worse in Quebec City where if it was up to them they would break away from Canada . In summary people should be encouraged to learn a second or third language but again it should not be imposed . Moderator cut: Not Allowed
Last edited by doggiebus; 09-20-2009 at 04:33 PM..
I have an employee in our Boca raton office who's half brother came here from Cuba in 1992 and still does not speak English . It is a tough call and no one wants to look intolerant or bigoted , but I can understand Cuba Libre and others frustration .
This is not a rare or isolated anomoly. There are hundreds of thousands of people in Miami just like this guy.
At my old job in college, I worked for a company that sent boxes and mail to Cuba. Most of the people I dealt with could not speak ANY English. The refugee community as a whole has little interest in assimilation or English, as many are too bitter after waiting half their lives to get here to try and become Americans. It will be interesting to see how many of these Cuban nationals will be deported after the embargo for failing to obtain their U.S. citizenship.
How pitiful, failing to obtain citizenship after having decades to do so...
However, there are tons of people who stubbornly refuse to speak English in Miami, much less learn it. Almost all were born somewhere else, as indicated by Miami's staggering foreign born population.
Just because someone is foreign born it does not mean they will refuse to speak English if you are in the conversation. I don't do it, and honestly I haven't met that many people that do that. The ones that do that are usually rude and arrogant people. It doesn't matter if they were dirt poor or rich in their country. Actually many poor people in South America are more humble and considerate than the rich ones. (think the Doral, Weston effect) Rude inconsiderate people come in all ethnicities and income levels.
Will I speak Spanish if you are not in the conversation and the other person is also foreign born? Except for work places I will, I will not deny that because I do feel more comfortable in Spanish. However that doesn't mean I don't prefer some things in English because I'm foreign born. Whatever I learn in English first, I cannot understand it in Spanish(example Algebra & Calculus, court documents, internet terminology etc). It's complicated, it's not all white and black.
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