My opinion: we should replace the Key Bridge and Bay Bridge with tunnels

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

Nothing is guaranteed.

Building the FSK bridge taller now, highly incentives wanting/needing to build the Bay Bridge higher (at whatever date) as it then becomes the single locational bottleneck for the regions maritime economic growth, which in turn tends to accelerate infrastructure replacement as there is not only logistical but economic justification and ramifications if not expedited. Perfect example(s) being the BP & Howard Street Tunnels.

Why thats so controversial is beyond me.

They're now in Tier 2 of the process. That means the site has been settled on (no matter what Stu Pittman says) and preliminary design of the new bridge(s).

There was talk of a height increase (minimal of 10 or 15 feet, I don't remember now). If it's now decided that the new bridge needs to be higher then the whole process starts over.

That means years of preliminary site selection for potential locations. That means years of community outreach for every single agency, State and Federal, involved. That means years of public comment and hearings by every agency, State and Federal, involved. That means years of lawsuits filed against every State and Federal agency involved. And any change in the preliminary plan by one of those agencies means the process starts over from the beginning.

I've lived in Maryland for 40 years and they've talked about replacing those bridges every single year. I've been invited to, and attended, innumerable meetings, hearings, conferences, etc. dealing with those bridges and locations. It's time to move the process along.

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

They're now in Tier 2 of the process. That means the site has been settled on (no matter what Stu Pittman says) and preliminary design of the new bridge(s).

There was talk of a height increase (minimal of 10 or 15 feet, I don't remember now). If it's now decided that the new bridge needs to be higher then the whole process starts over.

That means years of preliminary site selection for potential locations. That means years of community outreach for every single agency, State and Federal, involved. That means years of public comment and hearings by every agency, State and Federal, involved. That means years of lawsuits filed against every State and Federal agency involved. And any change in the preliminary plan by one of those agencies means the process starts over from the beginning.

You can fit any cruise ship, naval vessel or container ship on the planet under a bridge with a 215' air-draft (at night time high-tide).

A 15-30' air-draft increase isn't going to require the relocation of a bridge that has to cross 4 miles of open water. It's more than sufficient to adjust gradient (assuming they've even started them) to facilitate a higher air-draft than planned in that distance. Most bridge approach gradients are 3-8%. The Bay Bridge is exceptionally shallow at "only" 3% for driver comfort.

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

I've lived in Maryland for 40 years and they've talked about replacing those bridges every single year. I've been invited to, and attended, innumerable meetings, hearings, conferences, etc. dealing with those bridges and locations. It's time to move the process along.

The process is moving along. But you act like theres shovel ready schematics, contractors lined up and local/state/federal funding has been allocated that would cost tens to hundreds of million dollars to adjust post.

They don't even know the bridge type thats going to supplement/replace the old spans... let alone how tall it needs to be, which is exactly what the preliminary design stage(s) is for.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

You can fit any cruise ship, naval vessel or container ship on the planet under a bridge with a 215' air-draft (at night time high-tide). Thats all you need.

A ~30' air-draft increase isn't going to magically require the relocation of a bridge that has to cross 4 miles of open water. Most bridge approach gradients are 3-8%. For every additional 3-8m of height an additonal 100m of span is needed. The Bay Bridge is exceptionally shallow at "only" 3%.



They are obviously are moving the process along.

You aren't getting what I said. The preliminary design has been settled (that includes height) and it's now in design phase.

A change now would necessitate the entire process be repeated, from site selection for potential sites (and the same site would be chosen, we all know that) to all the meetings by each of the agencies involved at the possible sites, to all the public hearings to all the public comment by each of the agencies involved. And much of the two preceding doesn't happen concurrently but linearly.

MD DNR might sign off on everything but the plans are still sitting in a desk at the Corps of Engineers. MD Department of the Environment might want a change in the piling rip rap. That then goes back to every agency involved for more hearings and public comment because there was a change.

I'll give you a real life example I was involved in: We wanted to create a Living Shoreline coupled with a storm surge dyke. No problem.

The Shoreline was to be planted with 70,000 native shore plants in varying ratios. All the agencies signed off. Then one, I seem to remember it was MD DoE wanted a different ratio for a couple plants. Back to hearings and comments. That took 2 1/2 years. Got the Shoreline in. Keep in mind that we were already 4 years in when the plant issue came up.

Then came the dyke. Same story, hearings, comments, reviews. Then the Corps of Engineers recommended an increase in height of 1 1/2 feet. Back it goes. Another 2 years.

Then the Corps wants a different curve radius on thirty feet of the structure. That was another 2 years.

Then a property owner rescinded his right of way agreement for 15 feet of the structure. That was 1 1/2 years concurrent with the radius change. At the same time another property owner agreed to sell his (unbuildable) lot for the structure, but not to the Town. He wanted to have some sort of revenge on one of my Council colleagues so she had to buy the (unbuildable) lot to donate to the Town. Yes, the donation was part of the demand.

So, forgetting about the private owner issues we were in that project for 12 years from preliminary design to completion (which took 6 months for the Shoreline and 8 months for the dyke). Then another year and a half while the State replaced a bridge adjacent to that project in order to open up a channel to turn a dying marsh back into a tidal wetland

[Joakim3]

https://www.globalconstructionreview...tt-key-bridge/

First official proposal of the FKS Bridge to be submitted on 7th from WeBuild to MTA.

Cable-stayed, 65m air-draft, 700m main span, 6 lanes of traffic.