My opinion: we should replace the Key Bridge and Bay Bridge with tunnels

[NJ2MDdude]

Originally Posted by MidValleyDad

Are you suggesting a drawbridge (aka Woodrow Wilson Bridge) to replace the FSK bridge, the bay bridge or both? Do you realize the difference in ship traffic requiring openings between the Woodrow Wilson Bridge on the almost unused Potomac and the shipping route to one of the busiest ports in the U.S.? I suspect that the bridge would need to be open for ships over 16 hours a day no matter what kind of traffic management scheme were put in place.


As far as a tunnel instead of a bridge - dust off the geologic studies that were done before the FAK was built. There are subsurface conditions that mitigate against a tunnel. First of all the Ft McHenry tunnel is the LOWEST POINT ON THE ENTIRE INTERSTATE SYSTEM (road bed 95 feet below sea level if I remember correctly). Because the FSK is 'downstream' from that point the sub strata is even deeper, Also the FSK bridge (and the Bay Bridge) provide oversized and HAZMAT routes that would not be possible, or much more difficult, with tunnels.

Sorry for not clarifying. My preference would be to replace the FSK bridge with a new, taller and wider bridge similar in design to the WW bridge (I like architecture) but without opening spans.

As for the bay bridge, I don't think a new bridge is in the works.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude

Sorry for not clarifying. My preference would be to replace the FSK bridge with a new, taller and wider bridge similar in design to the WW bridge (I like architecture) but without opening spans.

As for the bay bridge, I don't think a new bridge is in the works.

It is but it's 20 years out.

Here's where it was in the process a couple years ago.
https://www.marylandmatters.org/2022...tock.adobe.com.

https://wtop.com/maryland/2022/04/lo...w-8-lane-span/

[NJ2MDdude]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

It is but it's 20 years out.

Here's where it was in the process a couple years ago.
https://www.marylandmatters.org/2022...tock.adobe.com.

https://wtop.com/maryland/2022/04/lo...w-8-lane-span/

Thanks for the links.

I thought they were still fighting over the general location of the proposed bay bridge.

I'm glad the current site was selected, and I agree with AAC in wanting a single bridge with 8 lanes at the same location (assuming the 2 current bridges will be demolished) to avoid impacting Sandy Point State Park (north) and residential neighborhoods (south).

I imagine they'll be fighting over selecting the exact location for years to come.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude

Thanks for the links.

I thought they were still fighting over the general location of the proposed bay bridge.

I'm glad the current site was selected, and I agree with AAC in wanting a single bridge with 8 lanes at the same location (assuming the 2 current bridges will be demolished) to avoid impacting Sandy Point State Park (north) and residential neighborhoods (south).

I imagine they'll be fighting over selecting the exact location for years to come.

No, just some people are. We still have daily protesters here at the nuke plant (Calvert Cliffs) and it's been operating for almost fifty years.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

It is but it's 20 years out.

Here's where it was in the process a couple years ago.
https://www.marylandmatters.org/2022...tock.adobe.com.

https://wtop.com/maryland/2022/04/lo...w-8-lane-span/

"They argue that Routes 50"

I remember riding on 50 BEFORE it opened.

We snuck up a construction road to get on.

After about the 3rd time a State Trooper stopped us and told my father to NOT do it again.

All of a sudden I am starting to feel old!

[MidValleyDad]

Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude

Sorry for not clarifying. My preference would be to replace the FSK bridge with a new, taller and wider bridge similar in design to the WW bridge (I like architecture) but without opening spans.

As for the bay bridge, I don't think a new bridge is in the works.

I don't think you could do something resembling the WW bridge architecture and get the clearance you would need without a draw span. The structure required for a high wide span needed is completely different. Also the channel of the Potomac is MUCH narrower than the Patapsco at Baltimore Harbor.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

How do you know any of your claims?

Have you talked with ANY of them about it in order to make such a claim?

If not, it is just your opinion.

Governments do things all the time people do not agree with.

Did you read my post on how the Chesapeake Bay tunnel in Va. was built?

It didn't cost taxpayers a DIME!

"Where there is a will, there is a way", as they say.

When the CBBT was built, there was not yet any NEPA or EIS process, which takes about 4 or 5 years. A tunnel does cost more than a bridge.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

When the CBBT was built, there was not yet any NEPA or EIS process, which takes about 4 or 5 years. A tunnel does cost more than a bridge.

" A tunnel does cost more than a bridge"

Never claimed other wise.

"there was not yet any NEPA or EIS process,", so?

You don't think new bridges and tunnels are NOT being built today?

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by MidValleyDad

I don't think you could do something resembling the WW bridge architecture and get the clearance you would need without a draw span. The structure required for a high wide span needed is completely different. Also the channel of the Potomac is MUCH narrower than the Patapsco at Baltimore Harbor.

Correct. Baltimore is more than likely getting a cable-stayed bridge.

The Patapsco isn’t deep enough to justify building a suspension bridge to cross it in one bound.

A 2-3000’ main span cable-stayed bridge can do the job just as safely for a fraction of the cost and construction time. I’d expect a 6 lanes wide bridge with a significantly higher air-draft than the old 185’ as well.

[DaveinMtAiry]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

"Tax payers and commuters are not going to....."

Have you personally talked with every one of them in order for you to make such a claim and to speak for them?

I seriously doubt it.

We get this kind of claim on here a lot.

Posters claiming to know, as a FACT, what others want, think, etc., without actually talking with them on the issue.

Just because YOU might think that way does NOT mean ALL others do.

Not saying you are right or wrong, saying that you don't know what others think or would or would not do.

And as a teacher, I am surprised.

Why must you always be so argumentative? Were you this way with your students? I am understanding now why you only have 14,000 reps after nearly 59,000 posts.

It is not necessary for me to poll hundreds of Maryland residents to conclude they do not want a multi-year delay on a major highway and higher tolls and/or taxes, that's a silly argument you have made. It's really not a stretch to assume most MD tax payers and commuter will not support such a project when there is a faster and less expensive alternative. Several articles as well as common sense tells me it would take much longer to blast a tunnel than to erect a bridge, this delay will postpone the opening of the Beltway for years. Are you really arguing the residents would support that?


Now matter how you try to spin it those costs will be absorbed by the residents of the state, it won't be free in any way, shape or form. If they used your Bay Bridge Tunnel model the state would no longer receiver the funds from the tolls as it has since the bridge was opened, that money would go to the investors instead. So that is lost income to the state that will be gone forever. Translation: higher taxes or higher tolls on other roads to offset this lost revenue. Nothing is free my friend, you should know this.