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Why must you always be so argumentative? Were you this way with your students? I am understanding now why you only have 14,000 reps after nearly 59,000 posts.
It is not necessary for me to poll hundreds of Maryland residents to conclude they do not want a multi-year delay on a major highway and higher tolls and/or taxes, that's a silly argument you have made. It's really not a stretch to assume most MD tax payers and commuter will not support such a project when there is a faster and less expensive alternative. Several articles as well as common sense tells me it would take much longer to blast a tunnel than to erect a bridge, this delay will postpone the opening of the Beltway for years. Are you really arguing the residents would support that?
Now matter how you try to spin it those costs will be absorbed by the residents of the state, it won't be free in any way, shape or form. If they used your Bay Bridge Tunnel model the state would no longer receiver the funds from the tolls as it has since the bridge was opened, that money would go to the investors instead. So that is lost income to the state that will be gone forever. Translation: higher taxes or higher tolls on other roads to offset this lost revenue. Nothing is free my friend, you should know this.
"Why must you always be so argumentative?"
Your interpretation, NOT mine.
Sorry, I thought this was the "Politics and other Controversies" forum where things are discussed from both sides.
If you can't take criticism on what you say, maybe you are in the wrong forum.
" Were you this way with your students?"
I was NEVER a teacher. I was referring to YOU.
"I am understanding now why you only have 14,000 reps after nearly 59,000 posts."
Could care less. Unlike some, I am NOT here to make friends,, but to DISCUSS issues and give my opinions.
If you can't handle other people opinions then maybe YOU don't belong here.
I speak my mind. If some don't like, there problem, not mine.
"It is not necessary for me to poll hundreds of...."
Then don't make claims like, "Tax payers and commuters are not going to.....", how do you know unless you have spoken to each and every one of them and gotten their opinions.
As a teacher you should know what those words mean.
Last edited by Quick Enough; 04-13-2024 at 05:45 AM..
Sorry, I thought this was the "Politics and other Controversies" forum where things are discussed from both sides.
If you can't take criticism on what you say, maybe you are in the wrong forum.
" Were you this way with your students?"
I was NEVER a teacher. I was referring to YOU.
"I am understanding now why you only have 14,000 reps after nearly 59,000 posts."
Could care less. Unlike some, I am NOT here to make friends,, but to DISCUSS issues and give my opinions.
If you can't handle other people opinions then maybe YOU don't belong here.
I speak my mind. If some don't like, there problem, not mine.
"It is not necessary for me to poll hundreds of...."
Then don't make claims like, "Tax payers and commuters are not going to.....", how do you know unless you have spoken to each and every one of them and gotten their opinions.
As a teacher you should know what those words mean.
I am not a teacher, I was never a teacher and I have no idea where you got that idea.
This is the Maryland Board, not the Politics and other Controversies Board.
Reps are not a popularity contest, it's a way to measure how many posters agree with your posts. And the numbers speak for themselves, posters do not agree with you very often.
I can handle other people's opinions just fine, I love a good debate. What I was pointing out is how you are incapable of a debate without turning nasty and confrontational. We all see it.
I pointed out how your Bay Bridge Tunnel example would cost the state millions of dollars a year in lost toll revenue.
That figure was 56 million dollars in 2023, this is will be lost to the state annually for as long as that tunnel was utilized. This shortfall will need to be made up by raising other tolls and/or taxes. Would you care to address this point or are you going to die on the hill that it is necessary for me to speak directly to all 6.1 million residents in order to understand their position on the topic?
Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 04-13-2024 at 07:19 AM..
I am not a teacher, I was never a teacher and I have no idea where you got that idea.
This is the Maryland Board, not the Politics and other Controversies Board.
Reps are not a popularity contest, it's a way to measure how many posters agree with your posts. And the numbers speak for themselves, posters do not agree with you very often.
I can handle other people's opinions just fine, I love a good debate. What I was pointing out is how you are incapable of a debate without turning nasty and confrontational. We all see it.
I pointed out how your Bay Bridge Tunnel example would cost the state millions of dollars a year in lost toll revenue.
That figure was 56 million dollars in 2023, this is will be lost to the state annually for as long as that tunnel was utilized. This shortfall will need to be made up by raising other tolls and/or taxes. Would you care to address this point or are you going to die on the hill that it is necessary for me to speak directly to all 6.1 million residents in order to understand their position on the topic?
"We all see it."
Here you go AGAIN, claiming to NOW what "all" other posters think.
"Reps are not a popularity contest, it's a way to measure how many posters agree with your posts"
Another "assumption' on your part.
Every poster does NOT use reps.
I NEVER have.
Look, if you can't handle other peoples opinion, maybe you should not be here.
Here you go AGAIN, claiming to NOW what "all" other posters think.
"Reps are not a popularity contest, it's a way to measure how many posters agree with your posts"
Another "assumption' on your part.
Every poster does NOT use reps.
I NEVER have.
Look, if you can't handle other peoples opinion, maybe you should not be here.
OK OK let us stop the pissing match and post like adults, this is no longer productive.
What do you say to my point that the Bay Bridge Tunnel model would cost the state $56 million in lost toll revenue each and every year? Do you not see a problem with that and how this will raise other tolls and/or taxes?
OK OK let us stop the pissing match and post like adults, this is no longer productive.
What do you say to my point that the Bay Bridge Tunnel model would cost the state $56 million in lost toll revenue each and every year? Do you not see a problem with that and how this will raise other tolls and/or taxes?
"What do you say to my point that the Bay Bridge Tunnel model would cost the state $56 million in lost toll revenue each and every year?"
How do you come up with this?
They could charge a toll into eternity, if they wished.
The Virginia bridge and tunnel STILL collects a toll.
"What do you say to my point that the Bay Bridge Tunnel model would cost the state $56 million in lost toll revenue each and every year?"
How do you come up with this?
They could charge a toll into eternity, if they wished.
The Virginia bridge and tunnel STILL collects a toll.
From you own post, #11, regarding the Bay Bridge Tunnel. They may still be collecting tolls but the state sure ain't seeing the money:
Then, "in mid-1960, the Chesapeake Bay Ferry Commission sold $200 million in toll revenue bonds (equivalent to $1.52 billion in 2023 dollars) to private investors, and the proceeds were used to finance the construction of the bridge–tunnel. Funds collected by future tolls were pledged to pay the principal and interest on the bonds.
Again if they utilized the same method used to build the Bay Bridge Tunnel and funded the new tunnel with bonds and not state funds the investors of those bonds would get the toll funds, That's how they are reimbursed for the huge investment made. There would no longer be toll money going to the state as it had in the past as I have been explaining to you.
I found the $56 million in a search. Are you really questioning that figure?
Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 04-15-2024 at 07:33 AM..
From you own post, #11, regarding the Bay Bridge Tunnel. They may still be collecting tolls but the state sure ain't seeing the money:
Then, "in mid-1960, the Chesapeake Bay Ferry Commission sold $200 million in toll revenue bonds (equivalent to $1.52 billion in 2023 dollars) to private investors, and the proceeds were used to finance the construction of the bridge–tunnel. Funds collected by future tolls were pledged to pay the principal and interest on the bonds.
Again if they utilized the same method used to build the Bay Bridge Tunnel and funded the new tunnel with bonds and not state funds the investors of those bonds would get the toll funds, That's how they are reimbursed for the huge investment made. There would no longer be toll money going to the state as it had in the past as I have been explaining to you.
I found the $56 million in a search. Are you really questioning that figure?
That's how roads, as well as bridges, are funded anyway, with bonds. In the cases of tolled facilities the tolls are dedicated to the bond repayment. In the case of just general highway bonds the repayment is from the General Fund.
For local jurisdiction that bond roads there's always a notation in the documents that the bonds will be repaid with an ad valorem tax. In other words, the local property taxes.
Building/extensive repairing of roads, bridges, tunnels aren't "cash on the barrelhead".
That's how roads, as well as bridges, are funded anyway, with bonds. In the cases of tolled facilities the tolls are dedicated to the bond repayment. In the case of just general highway bonds the repayment is from the General Fund.
For local jurisdiction that bond roads there's always a notation in the documents that the bonds will be repaid with an ad valorem tax. In other words, the local property taxes.
Building/extensive repairing of roads, bridges, tunnels aren't "cash on the barrelhead".
Oh I understand this. The point remains if they utilize the Bay Bridge Tunnel model all tolls would go back to the investors in perpetuity.
How was the Key Bridge initially funded? It must have been in a way that allowed the state to receive the tolls in the future because they most certainly have been receiving them. I wasn't able to find that information but I did find this with regard to the original construction in the 70's which of course supports my main point.
To address Baltimore’s growing problem with traffic congestion, the State Roads Commission, predecessor of the Maryland Transportation Authority, suggested a second tunnel be constructed to reduce traffic volume through the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel. After project proposals proved too expensive, state officials proposed a four-lane bridge that would carry more traffic, allow for transportation of hazardous materials and have lower operating costs than a tunnel.
Oh I understand this. The point remains if they utilize the Bay Bridge Tunnel model all tolls would go back to the investors in perpetuity.
How was the Key Bridge initially funded? It must have been in a way that allowed the state to receive the tolls in the future because they most certainly have been receiving them. I wasn't able to find that information but I did find this with regard to the original construction in the 70's which of course supports my main point.
To address Baltimore’s growing problem with traffic congestion, the State Roads Commission, predecessor of the Maryland Transportation Authority, suggested a second tunnel be constructed to reduce traffic volume through the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel. After project proposals proved too expensive, state officials proposed a four-lane bridge that would carry more traffic, allow for transportation of hazardous materials and have lower operating costs than a tunnel.
Through Preservation Maryland's core programs, we are investing in the future of historic communities. Our Historic Property Redevelopment program directly funds and manages the revitalization of historic properties, saving critically threatened places across the state."
We can go back and forth on this forever.
If the state decides to build a tunnel, they WILL. PERIOD!
I don't think they will either for the reasons I have explained, I don't see how this perceived bias in the article changes that.
Another thought is the entire bridge did not collapse, just the middle part. So they will not be starting from scratch, a good portion on either end remains. They most certainly would be starting from scratch with a tunnel.
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