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Wow, living in NC, I'm dazzled by the public employee salaries. Down here, this isn't how it works. Teachers run 30-40. PD/FD 30-40.
The cost of living is lower, though.
I'm retiring from Federal gov't information technology with a final pay rate of 70K + good health benefits. From what I hear, I'd have done better in a deli.
The entire structure on LI must be adjusted to let people live decently w/o bankrupting taxpayers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret
Funny, Clamboy, but I haven't seen you bashing teachers in any of your postings. I don't understand why. School taxes account for 60% or more of your total tax bill and are generally 5 times more than your police taxes. And a senior teacher (20 years and Masters plus 30) can earn as much as a cop, with only a 9 month schedule. Why don't you bash them? Or does it hit too close to home?
I guess taxes are what make the Long Island teacher such a satisfying target. However, if it's the taxes you want to shake a fist at, contact your New York State legislator and ask why budget negotiations for The Empire State are closed to the public. The property tax issue stems from a lack of funding coming from Albany, which forces districts to subsidize by driving property taxes through the roof.
As a separate issue, there are a lot of factors--namely, the amount of education and training required for each position--that make drawing a comparison between the salaries of cops and teachers a bit like apples and oranges. Teachers here are required to have no less than a masters-level education. We're talking about a price tag of $90,000-$170,000 for the minimum level of undergraduate and graduate credits required to become certified for the long-term. If you're going to use the salary figure for a teacher with masters +30, let us, then, factor in an addictional $30,000-$50,000 in tuition that one needs to shell out to reach that place on the salary scale, not to mention the fact that we are comparing a teacher of 20 years to a rookie cop fresh out of police academy. If all the community's bitching and moaning doesn't serve to devalue the energy that MOST OF US devote to our jobs, discounting 2 decades of experience in determining a fair salary certainly does. My student loan payments are nearly $400/ month, and whether people want to accept it or not, we need to make enough money to afford the cost of living here just like everyone else. It's not fair for people to expect that teachers work through 6 exhausting years of higher education and jump through all the same hoops as everyone else to become a professional only to make a salary that fails provide the things most college graduates want from their futures: a house, a decent car, resources to support a family, and a vacation from time to time.
And of course, the cheapest insult of them all: we're actually 10-month employees. I may have summers off, but I get to work an hour early and stay an hour late everyday for one reason or another; I grade papers for 2 hours when I get home; I grade more papers, plan, create activity sheets and materials, make tests, and research topics I'm going to teach in the future for several hours on Sundays. Conscientious teachers work hard, and none of us are rolling in cash--just trying to survive under the crushing weight of our own mortgages and property taxes while we're attacked by the media and the community for corruption and laziness. I chose this job because I love kids, YOUR kids, so I'm not looking for a pat on the back. Just stop using teachers as your favorite whipping boy!
On the cop issue: they should be compensated well if only for the risks they take in performing the duties of their jobs. Unfortunately, Long Island police departments are rife with nepotism and various other brands of corruption, and I just sort wish I hadn't met so many cops that acted like total pricks without provocation or necessity.
we all have our reasons for being! we all should just love and respect one another. Every job is important to someone. If it wasnt for the bagel guy we wouldnt have bagles,no pizza guy no pizza, no garbage man what would we do? [come to think of it he is pretty important] So we all should just smile and appreciate what we have , because someone allways and I mean allways has it worse then you. there are people wishing they could have a reason to complain about taxes and teachers salaries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret
Funny, Clamboy, but I haven't seen you bashing teachers in any of your postings. I don't understand why. School taxes account for 60% or more of your total tax bill and are generally 5 times more than your police taxes. And a senior teacher (20 years and Masters plus 30) can earn as much as a cop, with only a 9 month schedule. Why don't you bash them? Or does it hit too close to home?
I guess taxes are what make the Long Island teacher such a satisfying target. However, if it's the taxes you want to shake a fist at, contact your New York State legislator and ask why budget negotiations for The Empire State are closed to the public. The property tax issue stems from a lack of funding coming from Albany, which forces districts to subsidize by driving property taxes through the roof.
As a separate issue, there are a lot of factors--namely, the amount of education and training required for each position--that make drawing a comparison between the salaries of cops and teachers a bit like apples and oranges. Teachers here are required to have no less than a masters-level education. We're talking about a price tag of $90,000-$170,000 for the minimum level of undergraduate and graduate credits required to become certified for the long-term. If you're going to use the salary figure for a teacher with masters +30, let us, then, factor in an addictional $30,000-$50,000 in tuition that one needs to shell out to reach that place on the salary scale, not to mention the fact that we are comparing a teacher of 20 years to a rookie cop fresh out of police academy. If all the community's bitching and moaning doesn't serve to devalue the energy that MOST OF US devote to our jobs, discounting 2 decades of experience in determining a fair salary certainly does. My student loan payments are nearly $400/ month, and whether people want to accept it or not, we need to make enough money to afford the cost of living here just like everyone else. It's not fair for people to expect that teachers work through 6 exhausting years of higher education and jump through all the same hoops as everyone else to become a professional only to make a salary that fails provide the things most college graduates want from their futures: a house, a decent car, resources to support a family, and a vacation from time to time.
And of course, the cheapest insult of them all: we're actually 10-month employees. I may have summers off, but I get to work an hour early and stay an hour late everyday for one reason or another; I grade papers for 2 hours when I get home; I grade more papers, plan, create activity sheets and materials, make tests, and research topics I'm going to teach in the future for several hours on Sundays. Conscientious teachers work hard, and none of us are rolling in cash--just trying to survive under the crushing weight of our own mortgages and property taxes while we're attacked by the media and the community for corruption and laziness. I chose this job because I love kids, YOUR kids, so I'm not looking for a pat on the back. Just stop using teachers as your favorite whipping boy!
On the cop issue: they should be compensated well if only for the risks they take in performing the duties of their jobs. Unfortunately, Long Island police departments are rife with nepotism and various other brands of corruption, and I just sort wish I hadn't met so many cops that acted like total pricks without provocation or necessity.
[+] Rate this post positively
Clamboy,
You are making the unfortunate assumption that your level of education should be directly proportional to your salary. Unfortunately, that is not true. The only real prediction of salary is the strength of the people behind the negotiation of salary. Unions are where the money is made. General labor people and garbage men routinely make more money that those with college degrees in the private sector.
You also forgot to mention that the teachers on LI are compensated for every additional degree they get, thereby giving them quite a financial incentive to continue to go for more schooling.
A master's degree is required in lots of fields. I have one, and have little hope of retiring at age 55 as most teachers on LI do. I can understand cops and firemen retiring in their 50's as they are unable to meet the physical demands of the job. What is so PHYSICALLY demanding about teaching that their unions has been able to get them to retire at such a young age, with benefits for life I must add?
I also get to perform uncompensated work related activities at home as do many people. Teachers are not the only people with this problem.
To blame all the tax problems on cops is unfair, particularly when school taxes make up a higher percentage of the tax burden. Are teachers extremely overpaid? No, but they are more than in line with what a masters degree worker aside from Wall Street or very specialized field would make. Put in the union benefits, and they're doing pretty darn good without worrying about taking a bullet in the head during their shift!
Clamboy,
You are making the unfortunate assumption that your level of education should be directly proportional to your salary. Unfortunately, that is not true. The only real prediction of salary is the strength of the people behind the negotiation of salary. Unions are where the money is made. General labor people and garbage men routinely make more money that those with college degrees in the private sector.
You also forgot to mention that the teachers on LI are compensated for every additional degree they get, thereby giving them quite a financial incentive to continue to go for more schooling.
A master's degree is required in lots of fields. I have one, and have little hope of retiring at age 55 as most teachers on LI do. I can understand cops and firemen retiring in their 50's as they are unable to meet the physical demands of the job. What is so PHYSICALLY demanding about teaching that their unions has been able to get them to retire at such a young age, with benefits for life I must add?
I also get to perform uncompensated work related activities at home as do many people. Teachers are not the only people with this problem.
To blame all the tax problems on cops is unfair, particularly when school taxes make up a higher percentage of the tax burden. Are teachers extremely overpaid? No, but they are more than in line with what a masters degree worker aside from Wall Street or very specialized field would make. Put in the union benefits, and they're doing pretty darn good without worrying about taking a bullet in the head during their shift!
No not really, I just think we could get more for our money.
I'm all for collective bargaining...I'm a third generation union kid.
In fact, I think its a shame that more kids arent encouraged to get in the trades.
In the words of Woody Allen "Everything out parents said was good for us is bad Milk,Red Meat,College"
I think your points about teacher longevity are valid. I think tenure is pure evil and rewards mediocrity with security.
(However Im sure you'll find many on this board who will say that about any Union gig.)
As for the bullet in the head argument, city cops dodge quite a few more for quite a bit less.
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of.
8,900 posts, read 15,949,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY62
we all have our reasons for being! we all should just love and respect one another. Every job is important to someone. If it wasnt for the bagel guy we wouldnt have bagles,no pizza guy no pizza, no garbage man what would we do? [come to think of it he is pretty important] So we all should just smile and appreciate what we have , because someone allways and I mean allways has it worse then you. there are people wishing they could have a reason to complain about taxes and teachers salaries.
You make a good point. When I'm down about anything and think I have it real bad, it helps to think that some people have it harder than I do.
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