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Interesting...I've heard several rural KYians complain that Louisville "hogs" more than its fair share of resources, leaving more rural parts of the state ignored both fiscally and politically. It is interesting to see the differences in perception.
Like other people have said, I think it depends a lot on your region, too. For example, where I live in central KY/bluegrass area, there tends to be a lot more focus on the Cincinnati area, and I don't hear much about Louisville (good or bad). Obviously, though, state politics would make Louisville a bigger factor than Cincinnati.
I've heard from quite a few people outside of Louisville that believe that native Louisvillians tend to seem a little ignorant, narrow-minded and arrogant, perhaps, on their perception of Louisville vs outlying areas, eg, putting Louisville too high up on a pedestal while at the same time being condescending to other areas. It seems like there are a lot of natives in both Louisville and rural areas that have a lot of pride in their hometowns.
But, I personally haven't heard much about Louisville being a sin city, etc, although maybe since it's larger metro area it makes it seem too progressive? Of course, I'm not a native KYian and I've lived both in and outside of Louisville, so my personal experience is pretty open. And at the same time, I've lived enough places to know that perceptions are often wayyyyyy off base from reality.
Interesting...I've heard several rural KYians complain that Louisville "hogs" more than its fair share of resources, leaving more rural parts of the state ignored both fiscally and politically. It is interesting to see the differences in perception.
I think it's pretty well established that Louisville/Jefferson County puts in much more in taxes than it receives in the budget. My memory is that it's not even close, so at the risk of sounding arrogant (!) I don't see how we can be the hogs.
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I've heard from quite a few people outside of Louisville that believe that native Louisvillians tend to seem a little ignorant, narrow-minded and arrogant, perhaps, on their perception of Louisville vs outlying areas, eg, putting Louisville too high up on a pedestal while at the same time being condescending to other areas.
I think there is some truth to that in all fairness, at least with regard to being condescending or even arrogant towards rural areas. But from our point of view - and I think with some justification - some areas of Ky are holding us back with regard to both economic and social progress. I don't think it anything more than the usual city-rural conflict that exists in all states, but it's certainly there, imo.
To us, it seems like we are continually having to drag the rest of the state kicking and screaming into the 21st century, or even the 20th century! Some of the things rural legislators say during session just make our heads spin, although I'm sure that works both ways.
------To us, it seems like we are continually having to drag the rest of the state kicking and screaming into the 21st century, or even the 20th century--
With such an arrogant statement, it would be fuel for justification of the feeling towards Louisville.
With such an arrogant statement, it would be fuel for justification of the feeling towards Louisville.
Be fair, now. I said, "(t)o us, it seems like" we have to drag the rest of the state kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It seems that way; not necessarily is that way. A subtle but important distinction. (I also said that "there is some truth to that in all fairness, at least with regard to being condescending or even arrogant towards rural areas"; so I am not trying to say it's all them and none of us.)
Also, at the risk of making it worse, the truth sometimes sounds arrogant, if it's not sugar-coated. IMO, I think Louisville has been the leader of the state in many areas of the economy and in social issues. As Walter Brennan used to say on the Guns of Will Sonnet, no brag, just fact. (And I certainly acknowledge other areas of Kentucky have been progressive, especially in Fayette County and Northern Kentucky and even some rural areas.)
But it is my opinion that, unfortunately, Kentucky is a relatively backward state. Just look at literacy rates. Or smoking rates. Or obesity or any health issue. And I'm not even going to mention women's rights or gay rights, etc.
Jefferson County stands alone with Christian County in the top literacy category for adults. As to HS diplomas, which seems to be a bare minimum in today's world, that's grouped around the surrounding counties of Jefferson and Fayette, in general. Don't read the entire report unless you want to be seriously depressed. Being continually ranked around 35th to 45th out of 50 states in education, depending on the criteria, is pretty darn depressing. (We do well on increased spending on education, so maybe there is a light.)
A National Report Card -- State Standards Across All Subjects? Kentucky gets an overall "F".
ARKANSAS PUBLIC SCHOOLS (http://www.reformarkansas.org/policy/30yrinvest_report1.htm - broken link)
The health issues are just as sad, and you can check us out here: Health in Kentucky
First in smoking, seventh in obesity, third in overweight children, etc.
I say this with great regret since I love Kentucky. But to me, in my opinion, Kentucky seriously lags in too many areas and it seems like the majority of the progress comes from Jefferson or Fayette County and then eventually spreads to rural areas. I understand that the more rural areas of the state don't like to hear that, but if it's true, then it's not really arrogant.
At least, it seems that way to me!
Last edited by Off Topic; 02-26-2008 at 12:44 PM..
I think it's pretty well established that Louisville/Jefferson County puts in much more in taxes than it receives in the budget. My memory is that it's not even close, so at the risk of sounding arrogant (!) I don't see how we can be the hogs.
I think there is some truth to that in all fairness, at least with regard to being condescending or even arrogant towards rural areas. But from our point of view - and I think with some justification - some areas of Ky are holding us back with regard to both economic and social progress. I don't think it anything more than the usual city-rural conflict that exists in all states, but it's certainly there, imo.
To us, it seems like we are continually having to drag the rest of the state kicking and screaming into the 21st century, or even the 20th century! Some of the things rural legislators say during session just make our heads spin, although I'm sure that works both ways.
Look at the massive highway projects under construction in the following locales:
KY 15 widening from Five Mile to Vancleve (north of Hazard)
US 119 reconstruction between Harlan and Jenkins
US 23 is being widened to six lanes from Pikeville to near Prestonsburg
US 460 reconstruction from Pikeville to Virginia
Mountain Parkway widening from Campton to Salyersville
Industrial Parkway opened from I-64 east of Grayson to Wurtland/Greenup
KY 3 from Prestonsburg to Inez
KY 645 from Lawrence County line to Inez
Now, look at these massive, multi-tens-of-million-dollar projects. The only one of these projects that is necessary would have to be the Mountain Parkway project; that's been needed since 1963! Considering the population and economic decline in this entire region east of I-75 (save for London,) much of this money might be better vested in innovative economic development projects. These include heavy promotion of tourism development, expediting the development of clean coal technology, and even the creation of a state university in the southeast that can be used to help secure capitulate federal technology investments (I can elaborate on that more if you like.) Just an idea...
Eastern Kentucky needs to create jobs and already has a pretty ample transportation system to do so. Plus, you can also argue that my idea wouldn't involve cutting into as many mountains and therefore wouldn't hurt the natural beauty of the region! This could be a win-win situation for eastern Kentuckians and the common good of the Commonwealth!
Why did I not mention any western Kentucky projects? Aside from the US 68/KY 80 project from Bowling Green to Mayfield, do you see as much care and attention given to western Kentucky? The last major transportation project was the widening of US 641 in the late 1970s/early 1980s. It's sad, really. Madisonville needs a big honkin' bypass. US 431 could be turned into a new 4-lane truck corridor from Owensboro to Russellville and eventually to Nashville. US 68 desperately needs new bridges across Kentucky Lake and Lake Barkley. Those projects don't even BEGIN to compare to what needs to be done and redone in Bowling Green, Louisville, Lexington, and Northern Kentucky. You see, once you get east of about US 127, people just assume western Kentucky is Missouri. I notice this because I'm a western Kentucky native.
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Originally Posted by marmac
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Originally Posted by offtopic
------To us, it seems like we are continually having to drag the rest of the state kicking and screaming into the 21st century, or even the 20th century--
With such an arrogant statement, it would be fuel for justification of the feeling towards Louisville.
Well, as blunt as Offtopic's point may be, there's an element of truth to it. Louisville consist of 15% of the state's population; the Louisville-Elizabethtown region consists of over 25% of the state's population. There are three (I believe) Fortune 500 companies based in the city. The Louisville Medical Center is among the largest and most presigious complexes in the world and region, respectively. Louisville International Airport, thanks to UPS, is the world's tenth busiest cargo airport. Downtown Louisville is undergoing a $2 billion revitalization project to improve traffic flow and improve the life and culture down there.
You find some plates from rural western Kentucky counties like Hopkins, McCracken, and Daviess when driving on Louisville's roads. How many license plates have I seen from rural eastern Kentucky counties like Knox, Pike, Boyd, and Rowan? In my 3.5 years as a student at UofL, I probably counted no more than thirty. That's not a lot.
I'm not sure that rural Kentucky necessarily hates Louisville. But, get about thirty miles outside of the city, and you'll meet many people with a complex of "well, I don't wanna visit or go to no big dang city, dadgummit. Luh'vul's just way too biiiig fer my tastes, and even Lexington's too biiig." Not to cruelly mock rural Kentucky, but that's often the reality. Take where I live, Lawrenceburg, for example. It astonishes me how many people refuse to ever drive to Louisville for any reason--arts, school, medical care, shopping, flights, any reason--but will drive to Lexington in a heartbeat for the same services. I say this considering that Lexington has much worse issues in traffic, sprawl in accordance to its population, and doesn't have a centralized downtown medical center.
The crux: MANY rural Kentuckians need to be educated about the valuable resource that Louisville is and what a significant contribution it makes to Kentucky's vitality. Am I a fan of Louisville? Compare that to my opinion of cities like Cincinnati, Houston, Ft. Worth, and Atlanta, and you'll see that I'm the farthest thing from a fan. But, Louisville and Northern Kentucky are the best, in my opinion, that Kentucky has to offer in terms of quality of life and economic development. If the needs of Louisville and northern Kentucky aren't carefully attuned to, then Kentucky will continue to be a rural state--unprogressive economically, socially, and educationally. (I'm not seeking to offend any good rural folks, but I know I'll probably get some harsh "pointers" from some of those folks.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Topic
Be fair, now. I said, "(t)o us, it seems like" we have to drag the rest of the state kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It seems that way; not necessarily is that way. A subtle but important distinction. (I also said that "there is some truth to that in all fairness, at least with regard to being condescending or even arrogant towards rural areas"; so I am not trying to say it's all them and none of us.)
Also, at the risk of making it worse, the truth sometimes sounds arrogant, if it's not sugar-coated. IMO, I think Louisville has been the leader of the state in many areas of the economy and in social issues. As Walter Brennan used to say on the Guns of Will Sonnet, no brag, just fact. (And I certainly acknowledge other areas of Kentucky have been progressive, especially in Fayette County and Northern Kentucky and even some rural areas.)
But it is my opinion that, unfortunately, Kentucky is a relatively backward state. Just look at literacy rates. Or smoking rates. Or obesity or any health issue. And I'm not even going to mention women's rights or gay rights, etc.
A National Report Card -- State Standards Across All Subjects? Kentucky gets an overall "F".
ARKANSAS PUBLIC SCHOOLS (http://www.reformarkansas.org/policy/30yrinvest_report1.htm - broken link)
The health issues are just as sad, and you can check us out here: Health in Kentucky
First in smoking, seventh in obesity, third in overweight children, etc.
I say this with great regret since I love Kentucky. But to me, in my opinion, Kentucky seriously lags in too many areas and it seems like the majority of the progress comes from Jefferson or Fayette County and then eventually spreads to rural areas. I understand that the more rural areas of the state don't like to hear that, but if it's true, then it's not really arrogant.
At least, it seems that way to me!
Kentucky's a beautiful, historic, clean state. To continue operating the way it is is, I believe, disrespectful to our heritage, future, and potential.
As a small aside but still on topic, our public schools are terrible (save for certain schools in Jefferson, Oldham, and McLean Counties and Fort Thomas.) Our dropout rate is still 50% in some districts; although, dropout rate is now defined by configuring the enrollment difference in a senior class from the beginning to end of a school year. That's it. Plus, what is taught? The "test." One-size-fits-all thinking doesn't cut it for students. Shoving college down every student's throat isn't every student's cup of tea. I graduated from my public high school (Anderson County) and felt very inferior intellectually and academically to my classmates from Manual, Male, Trinity, St. X, Mercy, Assumption, and other schools labeled as "good." This, considering I got a 27 on my ACT, am a Kentucky Governor's Scholar, enrolled in plenty of AP and college classes in high school, and graduated in the top 2% of my class.
Now, PLEASE forgive me for rambling.
Last edited by EclecticEars; 02-26-2008 at 02:04 PM..
I'm starting to beat a dead horse here, or is it a dead hog? Anyway, here's an educational study on how Jefferson County is put at a huge disadvantage by the state tax system.
Just read page one: "The state taxes levied on Louisville...have caused our area to rank among the most highly taxes large cities in the U.S....Few states have engaged is such an aggressive redistribution scheme as Kentucky, and Louisville is the prime source of funds to transfer...the state formulae that redistributes money from a few urbanized areas to school districts in the rest of Kentucky are engineered to indefinitely penalize densely populated areas (and) to subsidize sparsely populated areas..."
Honestly, it doesn't sound like we're the hogs here.
Last edited by Off Topic; 02-26-2008 at 03:02 PM..
Hello,
I do not think that people out in the state away from Louisville actually hate Louisville. I think that you have to understand that Kentucky is a very rural state. Our two largest cities are Louisville and Lexington. The population of our third largest city,Owensboro approx. 56,000 drops dramatically compared to Louisville or Lexington, so in saying this I think there is a huge contrast between Louisville and the rest of Kentucky. The largest rift between Louisville and the rest of the state is in the political arena. In Kentucky politics the central bluegrass area where Lexington and Frankfort our state capital are located is where the political clout has always been. The central bluegrass area was the first part of the state to be settled. The early pioneers to this area of the state were primarily from Virginia and the Carolinas, so this area of the state is very similar culturally to other areas of the South. In contrast, Louisville is located on the Ohio River, which has historically been a settlement corridor for later immigrant groups. In ending, Louisville is the only city in Kentucky that has a cosmopolitan feel and in contrast to the rest of the state it is where the South meets the Midwest.
I think that you have to understand that Kentucky is a very rural state. Our two largest cities are Louisville and Lexington. The population of our third largest city,Owensboro approx. 56,000 drops dramatically compared to Louisville or Lexington, so in saying this I think there is a huge contrast between Louisville and the rest of Kentucky.
I think this hits it on the head. Much, if not most, of the tension is the usual big city/rural tension that exists everywhere.
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The largest rift between Louisville and the rest of the state is in the political arena.
Also very true. Remember that Jefferson County was one of the few counties that voted for Kerry in 2004, for example. The unusually high amount of partisan sniping over the past decade have exasperated the split as well.
i'd like to hear more on the idea of a state-supported university in SE kentucky. pikeville perhaps? sounds like a good idea.
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