Small city growth/declines (Indianapolis, Fort Wayne: real estate, home, buying)

[cjoseph]

Why have areas like Lafayette and Bloomington had considerable growth while Muncie, Terre Haute, and Kokomo have faltered?

[WestsideMac]

I do not have any official data to back up my following thoughts, just what I've read or heard.

1) 4 of the 5 cities mentioned have universities in them so even though they have that going for them, the universities are VERY different. Bloomington and Lafayette have HUGE universities (Indiana University and Purdue University) that have well over 30,000 undergrads attending them. You throw in graduate students and they are closer to 35,000 - 40,000. Terre Haute has ISU, but that only has like 12,000 and Muncie's Ball State has just under 20,000 undergrads. I think that difference alone indicates how many more staff and jobs the universities and therefore cities require. I don't know if student population is figured into the city population you were looking at (some sites do, some don't), but even outside of the university jobs think of all the real estate, commercial and other businesses that locate nearby to serve or make money off the students (More on this in #2). Kokomo has no major university.

2) The 2nd reason was sort of mentioned above. Lafayette and Bloomington have their factories and manufacturing jobs, but I would wager that they have diversified their local economy much more than the other 3 cities. I'm sure the others try as well, but it's easier to make the transition to healthcare, engineering, or other jobs outside of factory and manufacturing when you have double the students of the other universities. Those kind of jobs are generally going to lead to expansion if the company is doing well, higher pay and increase in the people wanting to come to your city. Factories generally are less likely to expand and there is a reason the Midwest was known as the Rust Belt. I think these cities have tried, but unlike Bloomington and Lafayette have a harder time shedding that label and diversifying.

3) Location/ perception is key too I think. Lafayette is off 65 only an hour from Indy and about 2 hours from Chicago. That could be great for business if having to go to multiple, larger cities. It can also be great for commuting and internships as it's not a terrible drive. Muncie is off 69 and only about an hour from Indy and an hour from Ft Wayne so I'm not sure why the same that holds true for Lafayette wouldn't hold true for Muncie outside of Muncie vs Lafayette perception and even size. Muncie and Ball State are not always seen as prestigious as Lafayette and Purdue (definitely not fully true, just common perception). For a business that may be a turnoff, whether true or not. If Lafayette seems like it's expanding and close to major cities while Muncie seems like it's declining and only close to regional cities then they may be less likely to want to start a business there. Kokomo while only about an hour north of Indy is kind of remote. There isn't much around it and not much to attract people to come there. It is off US 31, but not a major interstate. Someone could easily live in Westfield (perceived as better and growing) and then commute to Kokomo, but it's not a destination. Terre Haute is also very remote. It is over 1.5 hours from Indy and there isn't anything nearby in Illinois to again make it truly a destination though slightly closer to St Louis than Indy just without some of the amenities of a big city like Indy. Bloomington while also somewhat remote, is in arguably the most pretty region of the 5 cities with lakes, forests and rolling hills. Some love that beauty and can stand the remoteness for that reason. It also is only about an hour away from Indy and while not currently on a major interstate (Interstate 69 will eventually connect Bloomington to Indy and cut down on commute...if it ever gets finished. That's a whole other discussion).

I'm sure there are other reasons I have not thought of off the top of my head and ones that include data points to back up other assertions, but those are what I would say are the biggest factors just from what I've read and heard.

[OneDawg]

Originally Posted by cjoseph

Why have areas like Lafayette and Bloomington had considerable growth while Muncie, Terre Haute, and Kokomo have faltered?

That's on purpose, just like closing small town hospitals. It forces people to live in larger cities like Indy. Easier to control when the SHTF if you're all crowded together. Been watching this phenomna for close to 45 yrs.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by OneDawg

That's on purpose, just like closing small town hospitals. It forces people to live in larger cities like Indy. Easier to control when the SHTF if you're all crowded together. Been watching this phenomna for close to 45 yrs.

Most of the job growth has been in metropolitan areas or micropolitan areas, very little job growth in any rural areas. You're not going to retain and attract middle aged people and younger with few good paying positions.

[Berteau]

Muncie and Terre Haute are not really desirable places to live

[cdr18]

It's just the overall sign of the times. Metropolises offer much more in terms of retail, restaurants, entertainment, and younger people wanting to establish a family are looking for that. It's about the quality of life. Without a doubt, the universities play a major role in the economy and job growth. Indiana and Purdue will always help keep those cities thriving because of the high-tech and research-based companies that locate near those particular universities.

Muncie is a bit of wild card, because they have the university, but the history of East-Central Indiana was manufacturing galore. Heavy on the automotive industry. And we all know what happened with that. Fort Wayne is just large enough to be able to create their own mini metro, and they are positioned well geographically because they're not super close to any large city, but large enough to draw from many surrounding communities.

The other interesting metro, in my opinion, is the South Bend-Mishawaka-Elkhart-Goshen metro. There has been steady growth in this area for quite some time, but that is because they specialize in something that has largely remained very popular, except during the recession, the RV industry. The amount of jobs this industry supports is mind boggling.

[Toxic Toast]

The answer is Purdue University and Indiana University.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by cjoseph

Why have areas like Lafayette and Bloomington had considerable growth while Muncie, Terre Haute, and Kokomo have faltered?

Universities have become huge government supported and subsidized companies. Due to the lack of real oversight, many of the larger schools have bloated their administration, added on various departments, etc.. They also are in constant building or remodeling mode as they need things to look newer, nicer as different generations of students come to campus. They are selling higher education, plus they've had it easy for decades. Right now, when you have upper level admin making $300-$400K. Lots more people making $200K+, and even more making $100K+/year. That's a lot of money for the local economy.

IU and Purdue being the largest schools, they pump a tremendous amount of money into the local economy. Ball State only has about 22% of their students as out-of-state, where as IU has closer to 40%. IU charges about $4,000 more per academic year to out-of-state students as well. Looks like Purdue has about half their students as out-of-state residents, and they charge similar to IU. That means a lot more young people who can't just drive two or three hours home to grab something they forgot over the weekend. Many students from far off places are pretty much stuck buying stuff in local area, plus many of these young people have rich parents and many spend, spend, spend. Combine high paying jobs and a student population that can spend, the local economy does pretty well in Lafayette and Bloomington, not so much Muncie.

Muncie and Kokomo are victims of the auto manufacturing decline, both in jobs and in wages for those places still up and running (not sure if Muncie has any automotive production jobs left). Kokomo's current outgoing mayor was trying his best to make Kokomo as northern suburb of Indianapolis. The problem is that gas is too costly and many people don't want long drives. It is a 45 min. to one hour drive if one were to work in Carmel or the north side of Indy. Plus if one's job went away and the new job was in downtown Indy, it could be about an hour and twenty minute drive each way during rush hour.

[dodeca]

Originally Posted by cjoseph

Why have areas like Lafayette and Bloomington had considerable growth while Muncie, Terre Haute, and Kokomo have faltered?

Kokomo seems to be doing alright with its current mix of manufacturing, at least better than places like Bedford or Marion.

Terre Haute has a good mix of industry and education, but is not thriving. Same for Muncie, which had lot more manufacturing than Terre Haute.

However, TH and Muncie won't thrive like Bloomington and Lafayette because their universities (ISU, BSU) are state and regional, while IU and Purdue are national and international universities. IU and PU are known globally for some of their programs -- languages and music; engineering and natural sciences, respectively. Neither get much of their funding from the state anymore; most state universities get far less than half of their support from government; mostly tuition, fundraising, and research grants.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Ever since the late 1960's Muncie has always had a hard time attracting new industries that pay good money to move to Muncie. Muncie has - or had - a bad reputation of being a union town and ready to strike at pretty much at the drop of the hat. I remember many strikes in Muncie would turn violent, especially when somebody tried to cross the picket line. My mother worked in an office at a factory in Muncie. The office workers weren't in the union, but when the factory workers went on strike, my mother was fired for refusing to cross the picket line in order to get to work. People would be physically attacked and bricks would get thrown thru car windows. It was not safe to cross a picket line.

When I was living in Muncie, it was like Ball State and Muncie were 2 different towns and there was alot of hostility between the students and the Muncie residents. The students had the idea that Muncie was a redneck town full of ignorant hicks, and the Muncie natives thought the students felt entitled. Soon as they get their diploma, almost all the students would split town.

Ball Stated didn't reach university status until the 1960's. Before that it was known as Ball State Teachers College and enrolled about 5,000 students, if that many. Muncie was an industrial town with a small public college located there, while Bloomington and Lafayette were bonified college towns with some industry. Industry in Muncie was it's life blood while Ball State was sort of a side show. The town didn't revolve around Ball State like Bloomington and Lafayette revolved around IU and Purdue.

Ball State and Indiana State were members of the same athletic conferences as Evansville, Butler, St. Joesph's, Valaparaiso, Depauw, and (I think) Hanover, they were all just a bunch of small colleges around Indiana.