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Thanks but what are the reasons for these changes?
I don't know much about IL. I was just looking at some properties for potential investment and learning more. But it seems the prop taxes are quite high there. And I was wondering about population trends as well. Would not want to invest somewhere that is on the decline.
The taxes and crime are what really prevents people from investing in Illinois. We do have a pension debt crisis that still looms over our heads as IL taxpayers. Still, money and crime issues can come and go. What you can't change is geography.
Illinois is cold in the winter and that deters others from moving here or encourages others to leave. However, we don't have many issues with natural disasters and we are located next to one of the best sources of fresh water.
What really blows my mind is people who choose to invest long term in places like Phoenix who really aren't certain about their future source of fresh water or Florida along the beach where the tides keep getting higher and higher and hurricanes become more and more devastating.
The taxes and crime are what really prevents people from investing in Illinois. We do have a pension debt crisis that still looms over our heads as IL taxpayers. Still, money and crime issues can come and go. What you can't change is geography.
Illinois is cold in the winter and that deters others from moving here or encourages others to leave. However, we don't have many issues with natural disasters and we are located next to one of the best sources of fresh water.
What really blows my mind is people who choose to invest long term in places like Phoenix who really aren't certain about their future source of fresh water or Florida along the beach where the tides keep getting higher and higher and hurricanes become more and more devastating.
I just looked up the credit rating of all states and was kinda shocked to see that IL has the worst credit rating. That's pretty crazy.
Maybe the govt there thought they were as desirable as NY and CA and thought even if they raised taxes that people would stay due to all they offer. It's easy to keep people in NY (at least NYC) due to the uniqueness of NYC and CA due to the weather. But why would people stay in IL when it is not too different than the rest of the midwest? You could say that Chicago offers something unique due to its size and amenities.
Phoenix now is overpriced imo. And too hot for me. But yeah they'll have to figure out the water issue, though this season has been quite wet (at least in CA). I hear AZ is good at reusing water.
FL - I think people want to live near the warm waters (warmer than the beaches in SoCal).
For investment I am looking at lower prices places in the midwest. Iowa, NE, for ex. As they seem to be growing steadily.
I work with building permits in many areas around the country for my work. I have noted it is rather interesting that a huge number of people have left Illinois for the likes of Des Moines and Omaha in particular. Their tech industry growth has been remarkable. Their taxes are way lower. Crime is also a huge bit better as well. The amenities provided by their local governments is excellent by comparison. It is nice to live in a place you're never having to look over your shoulder worried about your safety. Nor having a business that will be broken into and destroyed. Wisconsin has also absorbed a good number of Illinois people as well.
There is a significant number who have obviously moved to the likes of Nashville metro as well as Dallas, Austin and San Antonio for obvious reasons. Florida has been a destination for retired Chicagoans for over 60 years now. But retirement is no longer a significant reason as so many younger Illinois folks have moved there as well. Personally I don't ever see Illinois backing off their absurd taxes. The crime is a virtual guarantee to keep rising as well sadly. But they are not alone. Just look at a NYC or Philidelphia, Cleveland, LA, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle. All are headed down the tubes. In addition to their crime their homeless populations are growing like weeds, and as usual with NO solutions implemented nor in site. And then there is our wide open border adding millions to the pot. Good luck with that.....
I just looked up the credit rating of all states and was kinda shocked to see that IL has the worst credit rating. That's pretty crazy.
Maybe the govt there thought they were as desirable as NY and CA and thought even if they raised taxes that people would stay due to all they offer. It's easy to keep people in NY (at least NYC) due to the uniqueness of NYC and CA due to the weather. But why would people stay in IL when it is not too different than the rest of the midwest? You could say that Chicago offers something unique due to its size and amenities.
Phoenix now is overpriced imo. And too hot for me. But yeah they'll have to figure out the water issue, though this season has been quite wet (at least in CA). I hear AZ is good at reusing water.
FL - I think people want to live near the warm waters (warmer than the beaches in SoCal).
For investment I am looking at lower prices places in the midwest. Iowa, NE, for ex. As they seem to be growing steadily.
Our credit rating is that way because of the pension debts. Our pension debts are so bad because we have one of, if not the largest teachers unions in the nation. Multiple decades of bad decisions by lawmakers to provide lucrative pension benefits is what caused us to become so insolvent. On top of that, all the lawmakers were getting their pockets lined by these decisions. Basically, corruption, greed, and overpromising pension benefits caused this.
As for why people choose IL or Chicago. Chicago was originally the railroad capital of the nation. All railroads meet in Chicago, so this created the initial boom. Since then, Chicago has grown to become a world class city with many other specializations like finance, tech, and marketing. There is a ton of job opportunity here and the amenities are great. In addition, Chicago is still one of the cleanest and most reasonably priced major cities in America. So that's why people choose here over the rest of the midwest or other major cities.
Our credit rating is that way because of the pension debts. Our pension debts are so bad because we have one of, if not the largest teachers unions in the nation. Multiple decades of bad decisions by lawmakers to provide lucrative pension benefits is what caused us to become so insolvent. On top of that, all the lawmakers were getting their pockets lined by these decisions. Basically, corruption, greed, and overpromising pension benefits caused this.
As for why people choose IL or Chicago. Chicago was originally the railroad capital of the nation. All railroads meet in Chicago, so this created the initial boom. Since then, Chicago has grown to become a world class city with many other specializations like finance, tech, and marketing. There is a ton of job opportunity here and the amenities are great. In addition, Chicago is still one of the cleanest and most reasonably priced major cities in America. So that's why people choose here over the rest of the midwest or other major cities.
Not entirely- it’s also because Illinois didn’t have a budget for something like 3 years, and shockingly, having no budget is horrible for your credit rating. Pension debts aren’t related to having a teacher union. They are related to the way that IL offers pensions. Some states have state employees contribute to social security, while others don’t. That defers payments at the time the employees are working, but increases them dramatically when they retire because they have to pay both what social security would pay out and what the state would pay out in the other situation. This isn’t something unique to Illinois. I lived in the Jacksonville, FL area about 6 years ago and they have the same type of pension debt program because of the fire/police and other city workers retiring as early as age 40 and being able to pull full retirement for decades.
Once the pension is promised (and people usually do pay into them) as part of their benefit package, the government can’t really go back in and take that money away when people retire. Unfortunately there isn’t much that can be done now about pension debts from the past. Imagine being 60, retiring at 50, and being told that sorry, your pension isn’t available anymore. At that age, it isn’t like it will be easy for you to find a job again.
Chicago still has its benefits. Namely, property is cheap, but the taxes are likely comparable for what you would expect to pay in a large city with much higher real estate prices.
The taxes and crime are what really prevents people from investing in Illinois. We do have a pension debt crisis that still looms over our heads as IL taxpayers. Still, money and crime issues can come and go. What you can't change is geography.
Illinois is cold in the winter and that deters others from moving here or encourages others to leave. However, we don't have many issues with natural disasters and we are located next to one of the best sources of fresh water.
What really blows my mind is people who choose to invest long term in places like Phoenix who really aren't certain about their future source of fresh water or Florida along the beach where the tides keep getting higher and higher and hurricanes become more and more devastating.
Tides aren't getting higher and higher. Ian was a very unusual storm because the eye wall normally collapses on itself over and over but that didn't happen due to some unusual circumstances. It was a 1 in 100 year storm.
I just looked up the credit rating of all states and was kinda shocked to see that IL has the worst credit rating. That's pretty crazy.
Maybe the govt there thought they were as desirable as NY and CA and thought even if they raised taxes that people would stay due to all they offer. It's easy to keep people in NY (at least NYC) due to the uniqueness of NYC and CA due to the weather. But why would people stay in IL when it is not too different than the rest of the midwest? You could say that Chicago offers something unique due to its size and amenities.
Phoenix now is overpriced imo. And too hot for me. But yeah they'll have to figure out the water issue, though this season has been quite wet (at least in CA). I hear AZ is good at reusing water.
FL - I think people want to live near the warm waters (warmer than the beaches in SoCal).
For investment I am looking at lower prices places in the midwest. Iowa, NE, for ex. As they seem to be growing steadily.
I think at last count, Il had something like $300b in unfunded pension liability. They are essentially broke absent freak bailouts from the federal government..you know, like during Covid?
I work with building permits in many areas around the country for my work. I have noted it is rather interesting that a huge number of people have left Illinois for the likes of Des Moines and Omaha in particular. Their tech industry growth has been remarkable. Their taxes are way lower. Crime is also a huge bit better as well. The amenities provided by their local governments is excellent by comparison. It is nice to live in a place you're never having to look over your shoulder worried about your safety. Nor having a business that will be broken into and destroyed. Wisconsin has also absorbed a good number of Illinois people as well.
There is a significant number who have obviously moved to the likes of Nashville metro as well as Dallas, Austin and San Antonio for obvious reasons. Florida has been a destination for retired Chicagoans for over 60 years now. But retirement is no longer a significant reason as so many younger Illinois folks have moved there as well. Personally I don't ever see Illinois backing off their absurd taxes. The crime is a virtual guarantee to keep rising as well sadly. But they are not alone. Just look at a NYC or Philidelphia, Cleveland, LA, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle. All are headed down the tubes. In addition to their crime their homeless populations are growing like weeds, and as usual with NO solutions implemented nor in site. And then there is our wide open border adding millions to the pot. Good luck with that.....
I would not put all those cities on equal footing. SF is doing worse than most. I think Cleveland has stabilized.
A few problems happened all at once. More work-from-home so fewer workers commuting into downtown which reduces spending at the local restaurants which causes some to go out of business and lowers tax revenue. For SF - some companies have moved out, to places like Austin. And overall there has been many tech layoffs recently. And then SF is very friendly to the homeless and drug-addicted, so that attracts more of them which further degrades the experience. They are soft on crime, reduced the police force, so criminals have more liberty to do their thing. Very many car break-ins, which deters tourism which further hurts local shops and reduces tax revenue. I think SF is in a downward spiral, though probably won't collapse for a long time if ever as it does have a lot of great companies and amenities.
Not entirely- it’s also because Illinois didn’t have a budget for something like 3 years, and shockingly, having no budget is horrible for your credit rating. Pension debts aren’t related to having a teacher union. They are related to the way that IL offers pensions. Some states have state employees contribute to social security, while others don’t. That defers payments at the time the employees are working, but increases them dramatically when they retire because they have to pay both what social security would pay out and what the state would pay out in the other situation. This isn’t something unique to Illinois. I lived in the Jacksonville, FL area about 6 years ago and they have the same type of pension debt program because of the fire/police and other city workers retiring as early as age 40 and being able to pull full retirement for decades.
Once the pension is promised (and people usually do pay into them) as part of their benefit package, the government can’t really go back in and take that money away when people retire. Unfortunately there isn’t much that can be done now about pension debts from the past. Imagine being 60, retiring at 50, and being told that sorry, your pension isn’t available anymore. At that age, it isn’t like it will be easy for you to find a job again.
Chicago still has its benefits. Namely, property is cheap, but the taxes are likely comparable for what you would expect to pay in a large city with much higher real estate prices.
There is a difference between paying the pensions that were promised in the past and promising the same level of crazy in the future. It's the COLAs that are destroying Illinois.
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