I Guess The Idaho Legislature Isn't Always Right On

[Racer46]

Humm, if EV's take over what new taxes will be instituted for road repairs etc?


Lower gas usage lower gas tax income to the State.

[dcisive]

Originally Posted by Racer46

Humm, if EV's take over what new taxes will be instituted for road repairs etc?


Lower gas usage lower gas tax income to the State.

They already, have in place, an additional fee like I had to pay, to offset what I'm NOT paying for gas. They referred to it as a "Road Use Tax". Makes perfect sense I guess. I just thought initially not having to pay for gas would help me in that regard. Naaa.......they see ya comin and have their hands out and ready to make sure you're still paying a tax. But heck.......after all........I am using the road I guess. We have pretty good roads so I can't complain. My drive to Twin Falls on the newly paved I-84 is so dead quiet and smooth. Much more so then on an ICE vehicle (Internal Combustion Engine). Not having that annoying buzz from an engine sure is intoxicating let alone the instant torque character for passing. Makes me want to road trip

[Racer46]

Originally Posted by dcisive

They already, have in place, an additional fee like I had to pay, to offset what I'm NOT paying for gas. They referred to it as a "Road Use Tax". Makes perfect sense I guess. I just thought initially not having to pay for gas would help me in that regard. Naaa.......they see ya comin and have their hands out and ready to make sure you're still paying a tax. But heck.......after all........I am using the road I guess. We have pretty good roads so I can't complain. My drive to Twin Falls on the newly paved I-84 is so dead quiet and smooth. Much more so then on an ICE vehicle (Internal Combustion Engine). Not having that annoying buzz from an engine sure is intoxicating let alone the instant torque character for passing. Makes me want to road trip

The road tax is expected, but you never know if they will start a new tax on the charging stations, that is incorporated into the cost to charge. Hope not, as I am considering buying one.

[banjomike]

If gasoline is stripped of all of it's taxes, it would be around 1/2 or less the price it is now. Every entity from local to federal takes a bite out of every gallon, and the money goes in all directions that have connections to our highway system.

Have no doubts that electricity for automobiles will be taxed similarly. For some time to come, I expect to see both types of vehicles on the same roads, and each type of 'fuel' will have it's own set of regulations and taxes.

The U.S. already uses more electricity than any other nation, and EVs will add substantially to the demand for power. EVs are presently in the same stage of development that gas engines were a century ago. 100 years ago, how much gas did an engine burn?
I don't know, bu it was far less than the 27 MPG that's common now. 20 years ago, a big V-8 that got 10 mpg was the only way a person could get the power needed for a vehicle, but today, a 4-cylinder engine gets the same horsepower at a fraction of the size and fuel cost.

So it will go with electric power. But I think the infrastructure curve will be a lot less steep and will be built in a much shorter time. The big structure already exists, where a century ago, refineries still had to be built, along with all the pipelines needed to transport the fuel.

Even in it's infancy, the EV will still be cheaper to drive, I'm sure. Home charging won't add much to the domestic power rates, and they're not so heavily taxed.

It's going to be a very interesting time ahead.
100 years ago in 1921, here were a lot of folks who were still using horses for transport in Idaho Falls and did just fine with them, because the people were all set up for using horses. If they needed to travel long distances, the trains were cheap an readily available.
Now, in the 21st century, there are still horses in use, as a horse can go where no other transportation can, and if someone is set up to use horses, they're no more difficult to manage than a truck. Just different.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by nm9stheham

OK that makes sense....$3.95 would be something like 60% recharge + or -. It just did not make sense as a full recharge cost, based on the advertised usable battery capacities, etc. And if one lived in CA, where electric rates are so much higher, then with even those higher gas prices, the payback for an EV gets worse.

Paying for charges at a charging station is more expensive so again, the payback gets worse. I guess what I want to point out is that your situation is optimistic for ownership costs of an EV. And you have not said how much you paid for the charger and it's installation; that has to be added to the payback period of the EV.... though it may be a wash versus oil changes and such in an ICE car if one really wants to get down to more details.

BTW, the VW battery warranty is 8 years OR 100,000, miles whichever comes first. So if it makes it to 8 years but only 75,000 miles, then the payback gets worse. Batteries lose capacity just with age, and, again, quick charges decrease battery age very noticably. I am pretty darned sure that many/most who ballyhoo the quick charge as the fix for the long EV road trip are not aware of this.

If you want to compare maintenance costs of an ICE vs BEV, you need to look at all the maintenance an ICE requires that a BEV does not. Besides the obvious engine oil and filter changes, you have transmission fluid changes, differential and transfer case (if 4x4) fluid changes, coolant changes, engine air filters, fuel filters, spark plugs. Now, if you get beyond routine maintenance, you are looking at a fuel injection system, fuel pumps, potentially a radiator, a transmission at the cost of thousands, engine oil seals, on some cars, timing belt replacements, etc. I didn't talk about items common between ICE and EV, such as axle shafts/cv joints, wheel bearings, brakes, air conditioning. Now, as far as the "powertrain"-BEVs have a battery and an electric motor. And a small cooling system for the battery-that's it.

I've been a long-time skeptic of EVs, but things have come a long way, incredibly quickly, and largely on the backs of Tesla. I'm at the point where I want one, especially with FSD moving along as quickly as it is. Only issue for me is the price at this point. Still, I'm considering a cybertruck before too long.

The big killer for EVs is our lack of generating and distribution capacity. We have a very shaky power grid now in many areas, in part to the switch to unreliable, intermittent energy sources and the decommissioning of reliable, baseload power. There isn't the juice to power a full EV fleet, and virtually no effort is being put into addressing that. We need nukes.

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by banjomike

But in economic terms, global warming is, I believe, the next huge technological issue that could easily shift the economic balance that now exists in the U.S., and I'm glad I live in a state where the INL exists.

One of the effect, which I doubt you intend, would be to shift the "economic balance" of the world in favor of countries that have no intention of restricting their carbon footprint. Those would include but not be limited to the People's Republic of China.

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

The big killer for EVs is our lack of generating and distribution capacity. We have a very shaky power grid now in many areas, in part to the switch to unreliable, intermittent energy sources and the decommissioning of reliable, baseload power. There isn't the juice to power a full EV fleet, and virtually no effort is being put into addressing that. We need nukes.

I'm quite sure you will agree with me on this. The point of switching to EV's is not to reduce pollution. It is to assuage vicariously (i.e. for thee and not for me, or so far in the future they don't care) the guilt of the ruling class for our high standard of living.

[nm9stheham]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

If you want to compare maintenance costs of an ICE vs BEV, you need to look at all the maintenance an ICE requires that a BEV does not. Besides the obvious engine oil and filter changes, you have transmission fluid changes, differential and transfer case (if 4x4) fluid changes, coolant changes, engine air filters, fuel filters, spark plugs. Now, if you get beyond routine maintenance, you are looking at a fuel injection system, fuel pumps, potentially a radiator, a transmission at the cost of thousands, engine oil seals, on some cars, timing belt replacements, etc. I didn't talk about items common between ICE and EV, such as axle shafts/cv joints, wheel bearings, brakes, air conditioning. Now, as far as the "powertrain"-BEVs have a battery and an electric motor. And a small cooling system for the battery-that's it.

LOL. I have been doing all car and truck maintenance on my cars for almost 50 years, plus building my own race cars and engines. And am an electrical design engineer who worked on the first generation of low/medium DC motor controller designs in the late 70's. You sound quite unaware of the large bank of power electronics that are used to control the electric motor, all the bearings, the differential (that is required in all drive axles), and all the stuff that can and will go wrong in the electric drive system. And please explain why a cooling system radiator in an EV won't clog due to poor coolant maintenance.... yes, it will have to be changed at intervals.

And to ignore the other common systems is nonsense. Prius's had a spate of body controller failures that took out 1 or both headlights.... nothing to do with the drive system. It just takes one poor part, and all cars have some. When a battery change with labor costs the same as a small engine change, and has to be done at a dealer because the smaller shops don't have the tools and knowledge, then it'll be a different story. People are fooling themselves to just count items than can break...it is about what will actually break..... and it will.

Enjoy the new EV's, but don't get your head up in the clouds with overly simplistic 'analysis'. The average EV repair record so far is not any better; as numbers increase, we will see. As a friend of mine says "the machinery always wins (breaks)'.

[Whidbey]

Look up UN International Seabed Authority, or ISA. Member nations split the profits of BULLDOZING and CRUSHING rocks from the seafloor to look for gold and other metals needed for stupid batteries. China leads this group and also has been buying the majority of rights worldwide, predominately from impoverished nations who may not realize the impact of destroying the beginning of the food web.

The Metals Co, formerly Deep Green, out of BC is a large sea floor mining company. They advertise they are being ”sustainable” destroying the ocean floor and have managed to bribe a Woods Hole scientist and UN Sustainable Development yahoo into buying into this farce. Give me a break. It is always about money, and hey, look into who owns the majority of mining companies and huge corporations. It's not who you think!

How would anyone even know what is going on under the water? Likely why we have a helium shortage too.

Look into cobalt mining and print out a picture of the usual child laborer doing the mining. How about a nice photo of the open pit mines is put on your dash?

There is NOTHING green about batteries. Period. And electricity is not generated from fairy dust. It is either coal, nuke, hydro, and barely solar or wind. Add a slave labor photo from China for the solar panels--and now often those laborers have their organs harvested while they are STILL ALIVE.

And how about you lobby to have to swipe a credit card to PAY to recharge your car instead of the free stations we see that are subsidized off the back of the folks who work at Jiffy Lube and serve your food.