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I very much agree. There is no reason to tax bike users because they are not adding to climate change or polluting the air. In fact, people who rely on bikes and don't have a car should be rewarded.
Boise has one of the highest percentages in the nation of people who bike to work and it is only going to increase because our local highway district, ACHD, is planning on adding dedicated and separated bike lanes on our major streets, in addition to the miles of bike lanes Boise already has.
There are already some dedicated lanes downtown with barriers protecting us cyclists and it is such a great amenity.
As a native Idahoan, I say imply a larger tax on the dudes who drive the big diesel pickup trucks belching out dark clouds of pollution. This makes sense.
There are too many horrible drivers out there, people who have their cell phones stuck to their face and of course the ones who are oblivious to pedestrians and cyclists. These people should be taxed more if and when they are cited. Easy solution.
btw, I do own the official car of Idaho, an Outback, so I am paying my fair due on taxes.
What difference does that make? The small percentage of people that ride bicycles should be paying for the infrastructure that they use, and not expect ICE drivers (or now all drivers based on the OPs statement) to pay their way. Bike lanes and paths are especially "expensive" in terms of per mile use, since so few bicyclists use them vs the number of car drivers that use streets/roads. A modest registration fee, say $200 a year per bicycle, would contribute some funds to help build this infrastructure. In addition, when operated on public streets/roads, bicyclists are significant contributors to accidents, since they often ignore traffic laws, and can't keep up with the flow of traffic. They absolutely should have to purchase insurance to operate on public roads, same as any other vehicle operator.
No you're right at THIS time they are not yet priced for the masses. But that time is fast approaching. Next year VW for example, is opening their assembly plant in Chattanooga Tennessee which will assemble the ID.4's. They are also planning release of another model off the ID.4 that will come in at a starting price range of $35k. If the rebates remain that will be a huge move forward. On mine and most other current EV's a simple logic plug in reveals all of what is going in in all the circuitry. The cooling system you are referring to for an EV is for the battery, which in the case of an ID.4 is set to maintain the battery at a 70 degree temperature using both air movement and coolant. There are many systems instituted in these EV's that goes WAY beyond an ICE vehicle regarding longevity. ICE cars are notorious for valve and lifter issues let alone build up of crud that causes issue with the pistons and rings. Every 4-5 years often a battery needs to be replaced. Oil and water pumps. Clogged fuel pumps. Then there is transmission issues oh my and does that ever get expensive. So believe me there's NO comparison in the end regarding wear and tear of one vs. the other. I've owned 17 new ICE cars in my driving history and some of them ran me dry keeping them maintained. I do believe those days are slowly coming to an end
Well, we'll see. BTW, both GM and Tesla use 2 cooling systems, one for the battery and one for the motor....I think that latter is for keeping the switching transistors cool enough.
Again, none of the other parts differs. Ball and CV and steering joints wear out, AC systems lose freon, lights burn out, the oil inside shock absorbers degrades and thins, and so on. A perfect example: The Prius went though a spate of headlight failures... it was not a simple bulb change but the body computer that switches on power to each head light. It would burn out the final drive transistor to one side or the other. The part alone was $300.... and that was 10 years ago.
I spent some time designing high powered switching electronics, for military power systems and radars, and also for an early generation of variable speed power controller for medium sized DC motors.... exactly what is being used today in EV motors. The #1 enemy for power electronics is excess heat; it does not matter if it is a car or a modern DC battery drill with electronic commutation, and such parts ARE going to have a failure rate. Since the power electronics being used in EV's were developed outside of the EV product lines and started several decades ago for industrial process motor controls, it is dubious if there are any more big leaps forward in that area.
I've also spent over 45 years building engines, including all my 4 cylinder race engines (turbo and non-turbo), plus do all my own car work including transmissions, AC, etc. The change to fuel injection, believe it or not, made a huge leap forward in IC engine longevity. The wear problem was old carburetor chokes putting too much gas in cylinders during cold start and warm up and washing the oil off of the cylinders walls. The extent of those wear issues were not apparent until after a comprehensive switch to F.I.
So IMHO don't get stars in your eyes about improved reliability for EV's....80-90% of the car is not any different. Much of this is just being human and liking the choices that we made.......
Here are a couple synopses, that are at least based on some actual data gathered by Consumer Reports:
OBTW, on the other theme in this thread: I don't see any need to tax bicycles at this time. Just not enough of them out there to set up a whole new guv'mint procedure. If they become a lot more used, then the taxes will have to come. But we're not anywhere close yet IMHO.
Well, we'll see. BTW, both GM and Tesla use 2 cooling systems, one for the battery and one for the motor....I think that latter is for keeping the switching transistors cool enough.
Again, none of the other parts differs. Ball and CV and steering joints wear out, AC systems lose freon, lights burn out, the oil inside shock absorbers degrades and thins, and so on. A perfect example: The Prius went though a spate of headlight failures... it was not a simple bulb change but the body computer that switches on power to each head light. It would burn out the final drive transistor to one side or the other. The part alone was $300.... and that was 10 years ago.
I spent some time designing high powered switching electronics, for military power systems and radars, and also for an early generation of variable speed power controller for medium sized DC motors.... exactly what is being used today in EV motors. The #1 enemy for power electronics is excess heat; it does not matter if it is a car or a modern DC battery drill with electronic commutation, and such parts ARE going to have a failure rate. Since the power electronics being used in EV's were developed outside of the EV product lines and started several decades ago for industrial process motor controls, it is dubious if there are any more big leaps forward in that area.
I've also spent over 45 years building engines, including all my 4 cylinder race engines (turbo and non-turbo), plus do all my own car work including transmissions, AC, etc. The change to fuel injection, believe it or not, made a huge leap forward in IC engine longevity. The wear problem was old carburetor chokes putting too much gas in cylinders during cold start and warm up and washing the oil off of the cylinders walls. The extent of those wear issues were not apparent until after a comprehensive switch to F.I.
So IMHO don't get stars in your eyes about improved reliability for EV's....80-90% of the car is not any different. Much of this is just being human and liking the choices that we made.......
Here are a couple synopses, that are at least based on some actual data gathered by Consumer Reports:
OBTW, on the other theme in this thread: I don't see any need to tax bicycles at this time. Just not enough of them out there to set up a whole new guv'mint procedure. If they become a lot more used, then the taxes will have to come. But we're not anywhere close yet IMHO.
I drive on two-lane Hwy 200 near Clark Fork and the Montana border a lot. Lately the bicyclists have been fairly plentiful, and Hwy 200 is no place for a bicycle! There is no bike lane, the speed limit is 55mph, and over in Montana it goes up to 70mph. It is INSANE to be riding a bike in the traffic lane along this highway! There are speeders, logging trucks, bus-sized RVs.... NOT a good place for biking.
Try driving on SH97. Cyclists are out of their minds where they decide to ride.
Listen, I love living here and don't wish to be critical. However there was something I ran into recently that sure didn't make much sense. My typical driving done on a weekly basis is such minimal mileage I elected to trade out of my wonderful SUV into a new ID-4 VW electric SUV. I'm loving it in every way imaginable and am glad I did it. However when I went up to Gooding County's DMV office to get the registration transferred over (I got a 2 year registration on the Tiguan in April) the gal there explained they were hitting me up for an additional $150 per year due to the fact I'm driving an electric and not a gas vehicle. Seems the State here does NOT take the same attitude towards people who are no longer using gas. New Jersey as example offers a $2000 tax break to non gas vehicle registrations along with the Federal $7500 break when buying/leasing one.
My move to this was strictly motivated by my usage, not political to be sure. The gal explained because I'm no longer going to be buying gas and getting hit up for their gas tax, they instituted a back up plan to make sure they were going to be collecting that tax one way or another. Sheesh like I'm evading taxes due to the use of a non gas vehicle. I'm still not sorry about the switch but feel the State just stabbed me while doing something that is going to save the environment a bit as well. Guess there's no way around it. At least I get to wave and keep driving as I pass the Chevron and Shell stations.
Semi-related curiosity question. I don't own an electric vehicle and am curious. I see those electricity pumps in supermarket parking lots and other public places. If you "pump" electricity into your electric vehicle at one of those places, are they charging you for the electricity you pump? If they are charging you, is there a road tax baked into the cost of the electricity? If that's the case, I could see your point about having to pay an additional fee at DMV.
If you're not paying for the electricity you pump, then it is being provided (paid for) by somebody else. I wouldn't know if they have to pay a road tax fee or their electricity costs or not to provide the free electricity for your vehicle. I would think that would be a little tricky to separate out electricity pumped into vehicles versus electricity used to run lighting for said parking lot, etc.
Not trying to judge you but trying to understand better.
Good question.
I don't know the answer, but I think it's likely an electric car charge could be like a pay telephone; it may only be a couple of dollars paid incrementally.
Like the phone company, the number of charging stations eventually makes the stations profitable.
I just saw my first electric car a few days ago, parked in front of a home on my street. I was struck by how ordinary it looked; if I hadn't noticed it had no radiator grille, I would have thought it was just another white, new, small sedan.
About the last thing I've had people comment on my VW ID.4 is that it's "ordinary" looking. It's svelte and sexy as heck. Having noticed that the Chevron and Shell stations in my town now have gas at $3.95 a gallon I sure felt good when I just had my Level 2 charger (40amp) set up by my local electrician the other day and I calculated my cost to "fill up" the charge rendering me 260 miles cost me $3.69. Last time I stopped there at the Chevron when gas was $3.29 a gallon a half fill up was $42.00. So I'm one very happy camper. The electrician had not ever seen one nor installed a Level 2 charging system so he was taking a bunch of pictures with his phone to share with the owner who also wanted to see what it was all about. I'd still say those that don't need to drive excessive miles on a continual basis can sure benefit from one of these.
I watched several guys that just got these and were doing cross country trips with them to see how it worked out. If you are on an interstate you've got it made.....they are everywhere that do "fast charging". All the way up I-84, I-90 and I-15. An average charge time can be from 10-30 minutes depending on how long of a drive you've taken. The quietness alone will intoxicate you let alone the ability to pass in seconds. I see Ford has already committed to doing away with gas cars and trucks. I know GM has plans along those lines as well. Europe is a bit ahead of us in that regard. China is electric crazy. There are dozens of EV manufacturers over there and a few already have plans on selling here. One things for sure I won't miss those annoying loud black smoke belching pickups.
It might be worth reading this article on battery life and how it is effected by quick charges temperature of operation, etc. This is nothing new: Batteries of all types show lower life when quick charged. Go down about 2/3 of the way in the article at ”Taking a look at charge type”. Actually, this whole article is a pretty good primer on battery care and operation for EV's. https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
Based on computation of current average ID electric rates (I used $0.10 per kWH) and usable battery capacity in the ID4 of 65 kWH, the current cost of gas in ID, and comparing the ID4 to the Tiguan, which are identically sized VW compact SUV's, the cost to drive 100,000 miles will cost about $11,000 less in the ID4. (I used interstate driving, so this difference could be more or less than But the base price of the ID4 is right at $15,000 more than the base priced Tiguan (the 2.0L). At 100,000 miles that is the rated battery life in the ID4 per VW, so at that time you are at the typical battery replacement time. If that is not too pricey, then this may 'break even' somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, excluding any other maintenance costs.
Nat saying anyone should not be happy, but those are the numbers. BTW, at $0.10 per kWH, and a 52-77 kwH usable battery capacity for the VW ID4, it ought to take about $6.50 + or - in 'fuel' for a full range refill (meaning that the usable battery capacity is exhausted at 240-260 miles). If you drive a lot at around 40-55 mph, where cars and trucks of all types get their best fuel mileage, then full charge range of the ID4 is gonna rise to probably well over 300 miles, and a recharge at 240 miles is not actually going to be a full recharge.
For the most part I don't usually need to charge beyond 50% so it's nicely affordable. Like I said the same equivalent for me was like $5 vs. $40 so not sure how your figures agree with my particular usage. Everyone is different in how they drive and where they need to go on a regular basis. The warranty alone is 8 years and 100,000 miles so decent care of the battery should certainly take it far beyond a warranty.
In any case, congrats on your new car and good for you going electric! We certainly don't need this North Idaho heat wave to get any worse!
So far I agree with most of your posts. Here we differ. For my views:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
The article, The Lithium Gold Rush: Inside the Race to Power Electric Vehicles in the far from "denier" New York Times (link), points out that there is much environmental damage from manufacturing electirc automobiles. An excerpt from the article states (excerpt in quoted post):
While the U.S.'s pall-mall race towards reliance on electric cars may signal virtue, it is far from harmless. The reflex to protect the earth has merit; not all actions taken in its name are beneficial.
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