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I've personally worked for a company that, even though we were in a "right-to-work" state, self-imposed all sorts of roadblocks to let bad employees go. It sure was nice having to do the work of two people week after week for nearly two years until the guy finally fudged his time card and our department head was able to get rid of him.
I always told the company that I could do his workload also, just let me work 10-12 hours of OT every week.
Come to think of it, when I did work in California for about six months... we had a tweaker that was nearly always two hours late. She would just come in and tell the boss that her truck wouldn't start. Never could fire her, I think she finally quit one day since "Breaking Bad" paid better.
"Right to work" means you can't be forced to join a union. It's commonly confused with a "At will" which means you can be let go for any reason at any time. It doesn't sound to me like either apply to this situation. More like bad management.
Hmmm..well, here's my take, as a transplanted California native. I've been here in Idaho for 3 years now and I enjoy the fact that there is a lot of work here. This comes at a price. Business is attracted here in large part because of the limited worker rights available. The "love it or leave it" types are usually Idaho natives with a local support base and the connections to get and keep long-term employment. I live in Twin Falls and there are 12 staffing agencies for a town of 50,000. They can indeed fire you for little or no reason. The lunch hour thing is, in fact, a federal law, and your daughter has recourse, if she so chooses.
The Idaho vs. California thing...amuses me. I remember Idaho in the 1970's when there were no jobs, no money and half the state was on food stamps. Local yokals can yammer on..but Californians brought the jobs and the money and yes, they brought an attitude of social justice.
To close, always remember that Idaho ignores Federal law as it pleases them and that a smart person will do their research and know their Federal rights and remedies.
"Right to work" means you can't be forced to join a union. It's commonly confused with a "At will" which means you can be let go for any reason at any time. It doesn't sound to me like either apply to this situation. More like bad management.
This isn't exactly correct.
Right to work means a worker cannot be excluded arbitrarily from joining a union.
The Right to work movement began in the late 60's, when much industry was unionized and many unions had become closed shops that only admitted new members with connections in some way to members.
By the time Idaho got on the bandwagon, our law on it included the 'no-force' item, but non-union members who worked union jobs are still represented by the union in all negotiations, and they still get the basic union membership fees deducted from their paychecks due to this.
Union members don't have exclusive seniority rights in unions like the police and fire dept. unions, but a only union member can join the union's retirement programs, which often pay 2-3 times more than local retirement programs upon retirement. Most union members here make contributions to both their local and union programs, as the plans may have better retirement when both are combined.
In any government job from local to federal, 'at will' is always 'insecure'. When funding goes down, workers get laid off. Seniority takes over. The reason why the police, fire depts, EMTs, and other agencies are so often unionized here is to allow some stability to the agencies that are all vitally needed.
Union negotiation limits the damages that can come from too many lay-offs caused by over-enthusiastic politicians hell bent on cutting taxes. Senior and junior offices can be laid off, but the layoffs are often better balanced to the real needs of the public. More often than layoffs, wages go down.
Low law enforcement wages are one of our biggest problems here in Idaho. Good cops go where good wages are offered, bad cops take the low-wage leftovers. Idaho's small communities have a hard time of attracting the high grade professional law officers anyway, so wage cuts tend to start a downward spiral in officer quality and experience.
This isn't exactly correct.
Right to work means a worker cannot be excluded arbitrarily from joining a union.
The Right to work movement began in the late 60's, when much industry was unionized and many unions had become closed shops that only admitted new members with connections in some way to members.
Right to work laws mean that you can not be forced to join a union and or pay union dues in order to be employed. Right to work laws limit union's ability enter into agreements with employers that require people to become members and pay union dues as a condition of employment. Here's the Wiki article on Right to Work laws.
This is why Idaho continues to bleed talent and jobs.
I'm Exhibit A.
I was born at Kootenai Health (then called Kootenai Memorial) in 1981. I now live in Southern California where I am protected as a member of the LGBT community and where my educational level (Masters) is valued.
Idaho attracts far-right people from California, Texas, New York, Oregon and other states. These are people who have a visceral reaction to anything progressive such as good schools, better pay for educators, higher minimum wage, worker protections, anti-discrimination laws, etc. Most of the people coming to Idaho are not young people, but older retirees who sometimes drag their kids with them. They made their hefty pensions in other states where the laws benefited them, then cashed out and came to Idaho to buy something and live off the fat of the generous state retirement system back where they came from. Meanwhile, they vote down education funding, higher wages, workers protections, anti-discrimination and other things that they took for granted where they came from.
It's a really interesting phenomena of "I've got mine, to hell with everyone else" sort of attitude and its really killing the state in terms of the talent pool and the economy.
Former Idaho Governor Phill Batt, a conservative Republican, was recently lamenting that his Idaho-born, Idaho-educated grandchildren now live in California due to its better wages and anti-discrimination laws. Batt's grandson, who is gay, had to leave Idaho because of the homophobic climate of the state, and his grandaughter followed her brother over to California because she wanted to be nearer to her brother and because California could provide her a better wage for the college degrees she earned.
Last edited by kttam186290; 08-15-2016 at 01:47 AM..
So, conservatives are in favor of poor schools? Surely, you can't be serious.
There are legitimate disagreements over how to improve our educational system, but to say that conservatives don't support good schools is absurd. There may be a case that educational spending in ID should be increased. I've not lived here for long enough to understand all the issues specific to Idaho's educational system. I am aware that Idaho's spending per student ranks near the bottom when compared to other states.
As a country though we spend more per student on K-12 education than all but a small handful of countries (3 or 4, typically including Switzerland, Norway and the Netherlands depending on the study you read). Yet our results as measured by any of a number of parameters continue to lag behind countries that spend less than we do. This is very clear evidence that the problem is not that we spend too little. The fact that other countries achieve better results while spending less per student tells us that we are likely spending too much on the wrong things.
Coming back to Idaho, the spending here is low enough that I think a good case should be able to be made to spend more per student. But to make that case we need to talk about what we're going to spend that money on. I am not interested in growing a sclerotic educational bureaucracy as has been done in many other states. Take your current state of residence as an example: California spends much more per student than Idaho, but their educational results are not much better. While there are some outstanding school districts in California (as I'd guess there are in Idaho), both states receive failing grades for their K-12 educational systems overall. Much of the blame for the poor results in CA is that too much money is spent on things that benefit the educational establishment, and don't produce better results in the classroom. I don't want to see Idaho go down that path.
Coming to your comments on higher wages in California vs. Idaho, that's certainly true enough on the face of it. But, that ignores the other side of the equation which is that California's cost of living is substantially higher. That goes double for the three major metropolitan areas of the state, which happens to be precisely where those higher wages are found. You won't find those higher wages in Inyo or Imperial county for example. I'd be willing to bet that if I was an engineer working at Quest Aircraft, or Kochava, or XCraft, the cost of living adjusted pay would be similar to the pay for an engineer with similar experience and educational background in Silicon Valley.
For the first time in nearly a decade, the governor, state superintendent, the Legislature, school boards, school administrators and teachers are working together to build up our public education system, funding schools more properly, making teacher salaries more competitive, and emphasizing college and career preparedness in order to improve the economy and develop a more educated citizenry.
The Boise School District Superintendent is calling out the Albertson Family Foundation for new advertisements from the “Don’t Fail Idaho” campaign.
In the ads, the foundation claims public schools are not preparing students for life after high school.
But BSD Spokesman Dan Hollar says the Foundation’s ads are highly inaccurate and have a negative effect on staff, parents, and students in the district, “we have more students than before majoring in science, technology, engineering, and math. And we also have an extensive curriculum in the arts. And also, for a sixth year in a row and we anticipate a 7th year in a row, all of our traditional high schools will once again be ranked among the top in the nation when it comes to America’s most challenging high schools as ranked by the Washington Post.”
This is why Idaho continues to bleed talent and jobs.
I'm Exhibit A.
I was born at Kootenai Health (then called Kootenai Memorial) in 1981. I now live in Southern California where I am protected as a member of the LGBT community and where my educational level (Masters) is valued.
Idaho attracts far-right people from California, Texas, New York, Oregon and other states. These are people who have a visceral reaction to anything progressive such as good schools, better pay for educators, higher minimum wage, worker protections, anti-discrimination laws, etc. Most of the people coming to Idaho are not young people, but older retirees who sometimes drag their kids with them. They made their hefty pensions in other states where the laws benefited them, then cashed out and came to Idaho to buy something and live off the fat of the generous state retirement system back where they came from. Meanwhile, they vote down education funding, higher wages, workers protections, anti-discrimination and other things that they took for granted where they came from.
It's a really interesting phenomena of "I've got mine, to hell with everyone else" sort of attitude and its really killing the state in terms of the talent pool and the economy.
Former Idaho Governor Phill Batt, a conservative Republican, was recently lamenting that his Idaho-born, Idaho-educated grandchildren now live in California due to its better wages and anti-discrimination laws. Batt's grandson, who is gay, had to leave Idaho because of the homophobic climate of the state, and his grandaughter followed her brother over to California because she wanted to be nearer to her brother and because California could provide her a better wage for the college degrees she earned.
When living in Ca. I don't recall any law that benefited me getting a job, it was hard work on my part, started at minimum wage ($1.65 hr) and when I stopped working was at about 100K a year, no state gave me what I worked for. If a person wants higher wages then educate yourself, better yourself, I did. I did not graduate high school but I knew I could teach myself, spent 11 years as a computer operator, taught myself programming and then spent another 35 years as a computer programmer working for many of the top companies in the US. In all the years I worked I was never fired from a job because I did my job well, came to work every day and was on time. Just doing those 3 things will pretty much keep you from getting fired even here in Idaho. Even though Ca. is not an "at will" state if your boss wants you gone you will be out of there.
And where is this state retirement system that you speak of because they failed to send me my monthly check. My retirement was created and saved for by me and my wife, no one helped us to get where we are and you know what, we decided to retire in Idaho not in some socialistic nanny state like Ca. that will tax you to death and charge you a fee for just about everything you want to do.
As far as "I've got mine, to hell with everyone else", yep that's me, we paid hefty taxes (about 30% of our salary (state and fed)) and a chunk of that is given to the lazy people who feel they don't have to work. If you want to have what I have then WORK for a living and do your job to the highest standard and don't rely on others to bring you up or make you rich and you too can move to a state where you would prefer to spend your money and retire in.
I am Exhibit AA.
I was attracted to Boise in my late 20's from out of state (currently in my 30's) , college degree in hand and have a great job and I am pleased at how welcoming and open minded Boise is and how more diverse Boise becomes as the years roll on. I've met many other young professionals who have relocated to Boise from out of state as well as many college educated Idaho natives in my age range who live in Boise and get by just fine and love it here.
You should not paint Idaho with such a broad brush based on your own life experience(s) that led you to leave Idaho. Idaho, like any other state, works out for many people and does not work out for others. I've known liberal friends who moved to the "uber liberal utopia" of Portland only to return to Boise because they couldn't find a well paying job in Portland and the cost of living was so high over there.
Last edited by Syringaloid; 08-15-2016 at 04:07 PM..
Reason: typo
When living in Ca. I don't recall any law that benefited me getting a job, it was hard work on my part, started at minimum wage ($1.65 hr) and when I stopped working was at about 100K a year, no state gave me what I worked for. If a person wants higher wages then educate yourself, better yourself, I did. I did not graduate high school but I knew I could teach myself, spent 11 years as a computer operator, taught myself programming and then spent another 35 years as a computer programmer working for many of the top companies in the US. In all the years I worked I was never fired from a job because I did my job well, came to work every day and was on time. Just doing those 3 things will pretty much keep you from getting fired even here in Idaho. Even though Ca. is not an "at will" state if your boss wants you gone you will be out of there.
As far as "I've got mine, to hell with everyone else", yep that's me, we paid hefty taxes (about 30% of our salary (state and fed)) and a chunk of that is given to the lazy people who feel they don't have to work. If you want to have what I have then WORK for a living and do your job to the highest standard and don't rely on others to bring you up or make you rich and you too can move to a state where you would prefer to spend your money and retire in.
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Sure, I can be fired by my employer in California if they wanted to, but I have legal recourse here, which is not something I'd have in Idaho. It is also illegal, per California state law, to discriminate against a person on the basis of their sexual orientation. In Idaho, it's completely OK to fire someone because you don't like their sexual orientation, unless you happen to work within the city limits of Boise, Coeur d'Alene, Moscow, Sandpoint, Sun Valley or Pocatello. Those are the only places you get limited protection as a member of the LGBT community. In some of those cities, it's only illegal to deny housing or accommodations, but not illegal to fire someone. The ordinances vary by municipality and some are stronger than others.
Outside of those few cities, you're fair game and at the whim of your employer's worldview/ideology -- whatever that may be.
Last edited by volosong; 08-15-2016 at 07:10 PM..
Reason: personal attacks not permitted per the TOS
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