Idaho vs California (Boise, Sandpoint: apartment, condos, how much)
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The real reason that Californians are leaving the state in droves is the invasion from the south. Our culture and language are being decimated, and Californians see Idaho as one of the last vestiges of true America.
Sorry Janab, but change is all around us, everyday and everywhere. We have to try and make the best of it. I have seen far more change in California in my life than I would have liked. Its just the way things are. We have more and more people being born here and others immigrating to the USA every day. That is going to bring a lot of change.
It is unfortunate that so many people like to blame Californians for negative changes. They label us as selfish, rude and pushy. We bring gangs and drugs, we bring crime and pollution, we drive too fast, we have low morals you name it. I am sure there are people like that any place you go. Most of the real Californians I knew growing up were nothing like that.
Alot of the people I've ran into around here that behave poorly are not from California, many of them are not even from America. So yes, we know a little about change. Oh, by the way, can you guess where most of the players on last years Bronco Fiesta Bowl Championship team came from? Yep, California. So the next time you here someone bragging about the big game, remember, most of the players were from good old California.
Sorry Janab, but change is all around us, everyday and everywhere. We have to try and make the best of it.
Carl,
I agree that the USA is truly in the midst of somewhat of a "civil war of cultures". Yet this does not mean that the western european-anglo culture should be surrendered without a "shot being fired". Those of us who choose to will resist and fight this undeclared war by choosing to speak with our chosen location of residence, our votes, and our pocketbooks, which is OUR right as US citizens.
Hispanics in North Idaho? Yup. And you know what, they're pretty much just like the rest of us...just American folks. Everyone has pretty much assimilated into the local culture and ways. Nothing wrong with that. It's what I WOULD DO if I moved to El Paso, Texas....or Paris, France.
Amen, Sage of Sagle !!!
I have found that where there is a number of humans living all together closely, there is turmoil. Then you throw in a melting pot...it boils. I remember my Grandpa telling of his Dad migrating here through the port of New York and having to LEARN the English language here in order to work and make a life. And he did quite well. My step daughter moved with her natural born Swiss husband to Switzerland and guess what? In order for her to live and work there she had to learn not only just one language but Swiss German, Swiss French, Swiss period....get my drift?
I found this on another website. It's a little sloppily worded, but I think the sentiment sums up the Idaho v. Californian sentiments from an Idahoan perspective fairly well. I'm not necessarily advocating this position entirely, but it's something I've heard time and time again, and I think s/he makes some decent points.
"To any and all Californians:
Since some of you obviously lack any foresight at all, let me put it to you thusly. Right now Idaho might seem like a bargain to you, and a place full of everything you are escaping from California from.
For now.
What you are refusing to realize is this - there are thousands upon thousands of Californians that are thinking the same exact thing. They thought the same thing decades ago, and turned Western Oregon and Washington into expensive, over-populated messes (and now we have them fleeing to Idaho as well). They'll be thinking the same thing decades later.
So while Idaho might be nice now, if you all have it your way, it'll be sh-t in no time at all. You'll have made Idaho an expensive, over-crowded, polluted mess.
People will be priced out of their homes because our economic base can't keep up with the cost of housing being paid for by out of state money.
Our rivers, lakes, mountains, and forests will be trashed, tracked, littered, and crowded to the point no one will be able to access them. Hunting, fishing, rafting, and camping will be by permit and by draw by necessity.
Our air quality will get worse, our traffic will become like the worst in California, because our infrastructure won't be able to keep up (we don't like paying taxes here, and how else will they be built), and our communities haven't been planned to deal with such numbers.
And our water will be bought, sold, and diverted to these new planned communities and subdivisions, as well as our farmland, because our farmers can't afford not to sell out. Water prices will go up for everyone, our aquifer will dry up even sooner than planned.
And you all will move on to the next inexpensive, undiscovered place, because that's what you do, and that's what you've always done. And because you believe it's the American way, and your God-given right to do so. And you'll blame everyone else - illegal immigrants, other Californians, whomever. But you really, truly don't know what home is, and what it means to love your home and want to protect it and not see it destroyed because of greed and selfishness."
Speaking of roots - I believe many Idaho born residents want to establish and maintain some roots here. They don't feel the need to flip every property they own for a profit and then move somewhere else. Lots of us tend to fix up our own homes until they are as close to perfection as they can be (for us) then actually LIVE IN THEM. Not put them up for sale as just another trading commodity. We did that twice just to get some momentum going for our target home which we acquired in a few short years. Now we're staying put and enjoying life for a change.
I'm sorry but I find the above comment ignorant at best. To blame all of Idahos problems on Californians is ridiculous and rude. And to say this:
"And you all will move on to the next inexpensive, undiscovered place, because that's what you do, and that's what you've always done. And because you believe it's the American way, and your God-given right to do so. And you'll blame everyone else - illegal immigrants, other Californians, whomever. But you really, truly don't know what home is, and what it means to love your home and want to protect it and not see it destroyed because of greed and selfishness."
The very thing this person is saying is exactly what they're doing; blaming a particular group such as "Californians" for all their woes. Give me a break.
I don't understand why locals have a "sense of entitlement" that know one can move into "their" area. Very un-american if you ask me.
It may come off as ignorant to you, but I do think it echoes loudly for a lot of Idahoans (that I know, anyway).
That said, I do think it's a clumsy piece, and indulging in a little hyperbole, but the general attitude isn't far off (except I would do away with "Californian" and just say "growth"). I thought it was an apt find for this thread.
But can you really dispute much of what s/he says, though, on a point to point basis? I invite you to at least try.
Look, a lot of people are coming here. They will keep coming here so long as it is attractive to come here. The more people that come here, the less attractive Idaho will be (for many of the reasons s/he listed, and more).
Many of these same people will move on once here becomes like everywhere else. I'd think that people who really do love Idaho - and aren't just looking for a cheap escape to build their dream home - will stay and fight.
It is a shame Californians get this rap, but the numbers don't really lie. It's not unlike typecasting illegal immigration with Mexican - unfair, but probably somewhat accurate.
You're so hung up on this sense of entitlement and un-American thing. I think it's more American to fight for your home and the things you love and value. And I do think a place being "home" gives one a sense of entitlement - we care about this place to our very souls. Most of us don't want to see it trashed. I really wonder why that doesn't resonate with you, Torrie.
You bet I think it's unamerican. The mentality is to discriminate against a fellow American because they want to move somewhere. As long as you'e a US citizen it shouldn't matter where you move to. You can label it as fighting for your home but I label it as discriminating. How would you feel if you couldn't pursue your dream because someone didn't want you to move to their state? Californians have been dealing with people moving into that state for years and years and from my own personal experience most of us were quite gracious in accepting others....it was a way of life. Idahoans are only beginning to experience what Californians have dealt with for many, many years.
We moved here from Washington state.....bought a house end of story. We have not trashed this area in away but consider ourselves law abiding citizens that are considerate to others. We haven't invested in a bunch of homes or made our money and run. We maintain our property and behave like good citizens should. And as I have said before we feel we behave better than some of the locals.
Whether you like it or not this country is growing and the blame game and silly comments that people make of who's fault it is becomes ridiculous and lacks merit. States like CA are going to have more people moving because they are one of the largest states in the country so of course you will see more people from these areas, that seems like a no brainer to me.
People are going to move where it's more affordable just like they did way back when in CA, and yes, when this place gets too expensive, people will move from here and it won't just be "Californians" as your article seems to imply. Idaho isn't the only state that is experiencing migration so I think the locals need to get use to the idea; cause it's not just happening to this particular area. Unless you tell people to stop pro-creating and you get the government to stop allowing illegals to enter our country you will not see a decline in the population anytime soon. Not too mention people are living longer. As we grow, this will be an issue all over the country and no one is going to be immune to it.
You bet I think it's unamerican. The mentality is to discriminate against a fellow American because they want to move somewhere. As long as you'e a US citizen it shouldn't matter where you move to. You can label it as fighting for your home but I label it as discriminating. How would you feel if you couldn't pursue your dream because someone didn't want you to move to their state? Californians have been dealing with people moving into that state for years and years and from my own personal experience most of us were quite gracious in accepting others....it was a way of life. Idahoans are only beginning to experience what Californians have dealt with for many, many years.
Just because we're beginning to experience what Cali has in the past doesn't mean we have to like it or stand for it.
Which raises an interesting point. We've seen what has happened to California - how expensive, crowded, polluted, angry, stressed, crime ridden, over-taxed, under-funded, and obnoxious most of that state has become. That is (was) an amazingly beautiful state, and now the negatives largely overwhelm the redeeming qualities. I can't blame decent people for wanting to move. However...
Can we not learn from California's past and present, and try to stop those same things from happening in Idaho, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah (read those other forums, and you'll find the same type of threads there as well)? We've seen what's happened elsewhere, we know what is causing it, and we see it beginning to happen here.
I'm intrigued as to why this connection isn't being made. It's almost like you've thrown up your hands and said "oh well, it's inevitable." I mean, if you've seen what crowding and immigration has done to Cali, and it has driven you from your home (many times and in many other places, it seems), why wouldn't you not want it to happen here, if we still have a chance to stop it? If nothing else I ask you to think about that.
Also, I don't think "discriminating" among states is really any different than "discriminating" among nations - they're all arbitrary lines and divisions, and we're all humans anyway. Yet we cling so steadfastly to the notion of country - why then can this not apply to state, or city, as it relates to identity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torrie
We moved here from Washington state.....bought a house end of story. We have not trashed this area in away but consider ourselves law abiding citizens that are considerate to others. We haven't invested in a bunch of homes or made our money and run. We maintain our property and behave like good citizens should. And as I have said before we feel we behave better than some of the locals.
This is where you keep missing the point. I and others aren't saying you're directly trashing the state. We're saying that the aggregate - the influx of people, is trashing the state. It's making it so people can't go out and enjoy the mountains or lakes or rivers because everywhere you turn, there's a few dozen people already there (and that's not including the endless commute to actually get there now). The increased use of these areas has impact, and very soon our trails and campsites and rivers will necessarily be closed or limited because they can't handle the impact. A slight example of this is our own Camelback Park in Boise - the increasing use of the trails has caused serious wear and erosion, to the point where they were seriously considering closing off access.
This is what I mean by trashing the state - for the most part it isn't on an individual level, but in the aggregate, the mass number of people, that causes the impact and changes that no one really wants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torrie
Whether you like it or not this country is growing and the blame game and silly comments that people make of who's fault it is becomes ridiculous and lacks merit. States like CA are going to have more people moving because they are one of the largest states in the country so of course you will see more people from these areas, that seems like a no brainer to me.
Hence the (largely unjustified) blame - we probably agree here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torrie
People are going to move where it's more affordable just like they did way back when in CA, and yes, when this place gets too expensive, people will move from here and it won't just be "Californians" as your article seems to imply. Idaho isn't the only state that is experiencing migration so I think the locals need to get use to the idea; cause it's not just happening to this particular area. Unless you tell people to stop pro-creating and you get the government to stop allowing illegals to enter our country you will not see a decline in the population anytime soon. Not too mention people are living longer. As we grow, this will be an issue all over the country and no one is going to be immune to it.
Of course. I'd hope people would be smart enough to realize these things without the need for government legislation. Make smarter lifestyle choices, including having less children, or adopting. This isn't an Idahoan or an American problem - it's a world problem. But we have to do what we can with ourselves and our communities, hence my vigilant and loud opposition to such growth, and my perseverance to fight for my home.
I don't want to see it used and abused for the whims of people and their pocketbooks and dream getaway homes. If anyone who moves here truly enjoys the quality of life Idaho offers, I think they should feel obligated to fight to protect it, don't you?
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