Idaho Highway 12

[Keim]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

The article exhibited the typical poor reporting I have come to expect from the media. Just what were the protesters doing? Were they disrupting others or blocking traffic? Your right to protest ends when it impacts others lawful business or passage. Otherwise, I agree with you. If they were standing on the sidewalk with a couple signs, it shouldn't be an issue.

Just what is the "potential for epic disaster" you are concerned about? We're talking about large loads of fabricated steel, for the most part. Not hazardous waste. OK, so what's the worst case? The load goes off the road and into the river? Yeah, that's not a good thing, but it's steel. Cut it up, haul it out and move on. Lots of fear mongering is all I have seen. If large loads are going to be transported, this (relatively speaking) little used highway would seem to make sense to use. The loads were to be hauled in the middle of the night.

Toyman:

Have you driven Highway 12 along the proposed route?

[Hp1167]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

The article exhibited the typical poor reporting I have come to expect from the media. Just what were the protesters doing? Were they disrupting others or blocking traffic? Your right to protest ends when it impacts others lawful business or passage. Otherwise, I agree with you. If they were standing on the sidewalk with a couple signs, it shouldn't be an issue.

I will agree with you here.

From what the article said, the first wave of protesters sat in the road to delay traffic. I appreciate their right to do that, but I also appreciate their decision will probably yield some citation or trip to jail. In the latter incident, it appears all they did was follow the truck to report any problems, and maybe block passage on an onramp?

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

Just what is the "potential for epic disaster" you are concerned about? We're talking about large loads of fabricated steel, for the most part. Not hazardous waste. OK, so what's the worst case? The load goes off the road and into the river? Yeah, that's not a good thing, but it's steel. Cut it up, haul it out and move on. Lots of fear mongering is all I have seen. If large loads are going to be transported, this (relatively speaking) little used highway would seem to make sense to use. The loads were to be hauled in the middle of the night.

The potential hazards are many: traffic accident, blockage of the road, tearing up the roads or environment, and yes, crashing into the river (which is certainly not unprecedented). The bottom line is the State granted a peculiar permit to allow them to do this, which is typically unconventional. And the point in response to you isn't the facts of the case but rather your sentiment that Idaho might appear even more anti-business, which is unequivocally not the case; in fact, it's just the opposite.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by Keim

Toyman:

Have you driven Highway 12 along the proposed route?

Yep, several times. Its a great motorcycling route. Not in the middle of the night though.

[Keim]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

Yep, several times. Its a great motorcycling route. Not in the middle of the night though.

Good-you have an informed opinion. I was curious. It is also a great route for driving your classic Chevy. Them curves is fun!

Personally, I had no problem with using the route for a few oversize loads. My issue was the number of proposed loads (100s!). That represents too much adverse impact for my taste.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by Hp1167

...
The potential hazards are many: traffic accident, blockage of the road, tearing up the roads or environment, and yes, crashing into the river (which is certainly not unprecedented). The bottom line is the State granted a peculiar permit to allow them to do this, which is typically unconventional. And the point in response to you isn't the facts of the case but rather your sentiment that Idaho might appear even more anti-business, which is unequivocally not the case; in fact, it's just the opposite.

A traffic accident is a legitmate concern. However, I'd be far more afraid of the average driver of a motorhome on that route, than a "megaload" traveling at low speed with a lead and chase vehicle.

Blockage of the road. Yep, a concern. But hardly what I'd call an "epic disaster". More like an inconvenience, until it was cleared.

Tearing up the road? Was there not funding for road upgrades to handle these loads?

Crashing into the river is a valid concern. But again, it's steel, not hazardous waste.


As to pro-vs-anti business attitude. I agree the state attempts to be reasonably pro-business. However, like in so many cases, a handful of people can change that view. After seeing all the grief and heartache, plus expense something as simple driving some big trucks caused, I'd wonder if any major company wouldn't be encouraged to go elsewhere and look for a friendlier, more accomodating location.

We come back to the original question, what was the real purpose of the protesters? It seems like the issue was really oil field development, not truck traffic along a scenic river. Why not be honest about it? And I'll agree, the motiviation of all the protesters was not the same.

Anyway, I'm signing off, this is getting too controversial for our Idaho forum. And my post about this was more opinionated than it should have been.

[Hp1167]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

As to pro-vs-anti business attitude. I agree the state attempts to be reasonably pro-business. However, like in so many cases, a handful of people can change that view. After seeing all the grief and heartache, plus expense something as simple driving some big trucks caused, I'd wonder if any major company wouldn't be encouraged to go elsewhere and look for a friendlier, more accomodating location.

Like where? Certain Oregon, Washington, and Montana are far less business friendly. There's not a lot of options in this particular scenario.

Moreover, I'm convinced that the State won't make a cent from this, but rather in the long term it will/would have ended up costing the State.

Idaho doesn't need to be pro-business. Being pro-business only attracts businesses and people who use the resources and land until a regulatory structure follows and they leave to the next golden opportunity. It whores the state out, through tax incentives or whatever, for no long term benefit. Idaho has always been able to take care of itself. People will continue to farm, ranch, mine, harvest lumber, and own small businesses to survive, and the state is better off for it. We don't need to attract huge corporations to thrive; only people who are looking to move here and somehow exploit something about Idaho wish that. The rest of us are fine with how we've always lived and survived; the leeches will be the ones who move away.

[Clark Fork Fantast]

This thread kinda went from the specific to the general ... Getting back to basics about Highway 12:
ITD says no hearings on new megaloads proposal - Spokesman.com - Sept. 16, 2011

Some very interesting things here: ITD says they won't consider new proposals because all arguments have been heard, but in previous decisions they said they wouldn't consider any previous proposals...

This new shipment is not related to the tar sands/oil, but does involve Hwy 12.

Gary MacFarlane of Friends of the Clearwater in Moscow, Idaho, said his group’s “main concern is we think Highway 12 is inappropriate for megaloads, be they headed for the tar sands in Alberta or be they a giant machine to make bubble gum. It doesn’t matter. Because this is not an appropriate place.”

So that would mean the students (or whoever) protesting the megaloads on 95 really had a different agenda, which is what I suspected. The Clearwater people, regardless of what they may feel in their hearts about corporations and business, at least state up front that what they want is to preserve the pristine Clearwater/Lochsa area. I think you can be in favor of job creations and domestic energy sources and still want to preserve a special scenic place...

[Clark Fork Fantast]

It's been a while since we've heard about Highway 12 and the megaloads, but here's a new story. Megaloads have actually been going through, because of an interpretation of a previous court decision. But next Wednesday's shipment will apparently not be allowed to go through:

Judge halts megaloads on Highway 12 in Idaho - Spokesman.com - Sept. 13, 2013