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The vast majority of houses I like in FL were built before the 90s. I've always been advised to stay away from homes that were not built to more updated codes. Please tell me your opinion about what is the better option financially:
1) Buy an "older" home
2) Build a brand new home that mimics the aesthetic of the older homes I like as much as possible.
At this time would you say it is not advisable to buy any sort of attached unit (condo, townhouse)? It's easier for me to find condo and townhouse styles I like compared to single family homes, but I know there's been some serious concerns about attached units in the whole insurance mess that's been ongoing recently.
Much of Florida was built out in the 1960s and 1970s. Those homes were almost always built with a concrete slab and concrete block walls, otherwise known as CBS construction. The roofs were built with standard trusses and for those inclined for insurance discounts (or required), modification can easily be done for a few hundred dollars where the trusses are strapped at four corners to the top of the concrete walls. These houses (pre-wind mitigation) have held up through many storms while many of the newer builds (mid 80s through 90s) were virtually destroyed in varying hurricanes. In terms of condos having insurance issues, I wouldn't guess so if they've maintained updates and had roof mitigation work completed. There's always a market for condos in the state, especially in the better built and well managed options. Townhouses can be tougher and would greatly depend on location and market conditions of that area where SFH prices perhaps are traditionally higher.
disclosure, I'm not a realtor, builder, or building inspector, I'm just an experienced home buyer in Florida
With older homes...
...you also have to beware of the possible presence of copper plumbing, which would need to be changed to PCV pipes (major cost & hassel). The copper biodegrades in the acidic Florida soil beneath & within your slab, and the old copper pipes can start leaking.
Newer homes use all PCV (white plastic looking pipes). The pipes running from the street to the home should also be checked to be sure they are not Copper.
...you also have to beware of Chinese Drywall, which can be easily tested for in advance of signing anything. Fomaldahyde gas was being emitted from Chinese drywall, which is hazardous to human health. Homes with that, must be gutted.
I'd have it in writing in your cotract that the presence of copper plumbing, or Chinese drywall makes you offer null and void and all deposit monies must be returned in full.
Read the sellers disclosure sheet VERY closely. I think these items must be disclosed by law, but people sometimes dont know they have these issues...especially if surviving family members are selling a deceased family members home, and other times, sellers lie.
Having an experienced building inspector, who works the area often, is key. They know which neighborhoods homes contained these features when built, & can identify both issues.
Of course, older homes are more succeptible to termites, if they have not been kept up.
The windows & sliders in older homes will not be as energy efficient either.
Tile roof lifes are not nearly as long as manufacturers & builders claim. Long ago, they were saying they'd last 30 years, and some are needing to be replaced ~15 years.
The only thing a like about older homes is some have much larger lot sizes than newer homes, and more mature trees. Other than that, I prefer new, or near new homes. HVAC systems & hot water heaters can need replacing at just 8 years here.
Last edited by beach43ofus; 12-19-2022 at 10:59 AM..
IMO, condominium prices on older associations, three stories and higher, built in the 70's, 80's & 90's will drop as their maintenance skyrockets in order to comply with SB4, the SIRS and 30/40 year inspections. Many have continued to waive fully funding their reserves which will result in the increase of fees.
Location: Sarasota/ Bradenton - University Pkwy area
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Older homes can be great options if you watch out for certain things, such as roof age, electrical & plumbing updates (nor not), whether permits were properly pulled for remodeling and additions when required.
Regarding roofs: Florida recently passed legislation that allows insurance companies to change the way they cover older roofs. Under the law, if your roof is over 10 years old and it gets destroyed during a hurricane, your insurance company could pay you what your old roof is worth at the time as opposed to paying 100% of the replacement cost. It creates a sliding scale for payouts on roofs over 10 years of age. Many insurance companies have issues about insuring homes with roofs that are 15 years old or older, so be sure to look up when the roof was last replaced in the county building department's website. Do not rely just on info supplied by the sellers, they often are off on the exact dates.
Electrical and plumbing updates: If you buy an older home, most all insurance companies are going to want to see at least a 4 Point Home Inspection before they will issue new coverage for that property. The 4 point inspection covers the roof, electrical, plumbing and HVAC system. They want to know that all are functioning properly, that all are to code for when they were installed (as in permits pulled if permits were required) and they generally want an estimated life expectancy for things like water heaters.
Permits: This is a biggie when buying an older home that has gone through remodeling at some point in the past. Often on older homes you will see that a FL room has been converted to living space, or a kitchen wall was taken down to create a more open floor space. Often if you look up permits for the property you will find none on file regarding the remodeling. Things like this were often ignored in the past but no longer.
More times than not, unpermitted work will not be covered by your homeowners insurance. In fact, unpermitted work can interfere with your homeowners insurance coverage as a whole. If you file a claim with your homeowners and they find out that there has been unpermitted work performed on your property, they have the right to drop your coverage due to risk.
The lack of permits can also become a big headache when you go to sell your home because once you know that unpermitted construction was done on your home, you must, by law, disclose the issue to all potential buyers. That will likely have a negative impact on the sales price. Plus, your buyer must obtain insurance on the property for closing if they are doing financing -- and the buyer may run into problems finding an insurance company willing to issue new coverage for the property.
If a room was added, lanai enclosed or shed built in the backyard, it is either on the property records or not, and the evidence is clearly visible (or not) with sites such as Google Satellite. Yes, local governments are using satellite views to monitor illegal construction and additions to properties these days. Most likely the building department will demand you pull permits for the previous work done -- but here's the catch -- those remodeling jobs will have to meet CURRENT building codes, not the codes from when the work was originally done.
Just because things were ignored in the past doesn't mean they are ignored today. Because of all of the reasons above, it makes sense to get permits when required as a home owner and be very cautious about checking for permits when buying a home, especially an older home.
Older homes often have character that newer homes lack. They are often built on larger lots and come with mature landscaping. There's nothing wrong with buying an older home as long as you know what to watch out for and be sure to get a thorough home inspection (not just the 4 point for insurance purposes) by a qualified home inspector when buying one.
Location: Sarasota/ Bradenton - University Pkwy area
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I'm treating condos as a separate post. Much of the "insurance mess" regarding condos has to do with the new legislation regarding older condo buildings of 3 or more floors.
There's a lot to know before buying condos in FL.
Before buying a condo in any community, you will want to see the condo docs -- the Rules & Regulations, Bylaws and voting rights, BUDGETS, Budget Reserves. You'll also want to ask the Board or management company whether there are any current or pending special assessments and/ or lawsuits against the condo association.
Under Florida law a buyer can cancel a transaction within three days from the time the buyer executes the purchase contract and receives a current copy of the condominium documents (the declaration of condominium, articles of incorporation, bylaws, rules of the association, most recent year-end financial information and the frequently asked questions and answers document). You should request the condo docs from the seller in writing. This is normally done thru a condo addendum attached to your purchase offer. This period cannot be waived or amended per FL statutes. You will want to use that time to carefully read over the condo docs so you understand what you are buying into.
The financials of a condo association are, in my opinion, as important (if not more so) than current monthly maintenance fees. Is the association meeting it's current financial obligations? Do they have sufficient reserves for the more expensive maintenance/repair items (such as roofs) or can you expect to see special assessments to help cover costs? How many owners are behind in their payments? Are there any current special assessments or discussions about doing special assessments?
The condo docs will tell you what you as unit owner are responsible for maintaining, what the condo association maintains. Generally, the unit owner is responsible for anything from the exterior wall studs inward -- so all drywall, electrical, plumbing, appliances, etc. Some condo associations make unit owners responsible for windows and doors as well, read the documents carefully. Roofs are often the responsibility of the condo association, but not always - you'll want to know up front who is responsible for roof maintenance and replacement for your building. You'll want to factor in insurance costs for the interior of your condo (all condo docs I've seen require unit owners to carry their own insurance for their individual units).
The condo docs also explain what you can and cannot due to your unit, including rental restrictions.
You'll want to ask if the condo community is located within a designated flood zone. And while we are speaking of insurance, you'll want to check out what the association is currently paying for hazard insurance for the exterior of the buildings and common areas as well as what the current unit owner is paying for insurance for the condo itself. A lot of associations on barrier islands or along the coasts have experienced huge increases in insurance rates over the past few years -- especially the older condo associations. When the association gets billed higher rates, every unit owner has to pick up the cost in higher maintenance fees.
As with a single family home, you'll want to have a thorough home inspection done on the unit before closing so you know if there are electrical, plumbing, HVAC issues and if the appliances are functioning properly.
Condo ownership is great for those who want to live in FL but do not want to commit to the responsibilities of owning a single family residence. However, as with any purchase, it pays to do your homework up front so there are no "surprises" after closing.
Much of Florida was built out in the 1960s and 1970s. Those homes were almost always built with a concrete slab and concrete block walls, otherwise known as CBS construction. The roofs were built with standard trusses and for those inclined for insurance discounts (or required), modification can easily be done for a few hundred dollars where the trusses are strapped at four corners to the top of the concrete walls. These houses (pre-wind mitigation) have held up through many storms while many of the newer builds (mid 80s through 90s) were virtually destroyed in varying hurricanes.
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Thank you kyle. So do you feel it's smarter to buy a home built in the 60s-70s vs the 80s? You said "mid 80s" so does that mean early 80s houses are better than later 80s?
I have heard about the strap improvements for roofs. When you do that modification, do the insurers no longer treat it like an older house?
I'd have it in writing in your cotract that the presence of copper plumbing, or Chinese drywall makes you offer null and void and all deposit monies must be returned in full.
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Hmm that's a good idea, I had not thought of that. Is that something people commonly do? Probably not over the last 3 years with buyers so desperate and sellers in total control.
The Chinese drywall was going on in the early 2000s right? And the copper pipes what decade was that being done?
Last edited by Aquatique; 12-19-2022 at 05:39 PM..
Sunshine thank you very much for all of that info. So, would you say your main insurance related concern when it comes to older homes is actually unpermitted work?
If someone is buying a condo or any kind of attached unit, and the complex / building is only 1 or 2 floors, is there not much to worry about as far as insurance problems? As long as the finances of the condo association look good?
What do you think about townhome vs condo?
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