[JBtwinz]

Originally Posted by boy3365

Jax doesn't seem to have the companies with names that pop and possibly deeper pockets like P&G, Quicken, GM/Ford, etc. That leaves Firehouse Subs and "I don't know if it will even exist in 5 years" Southeastern Grocers lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ksonville_area

I do realize that they do have companies with large regional offices there, but I think that's part of the "come to Florida to preserve your money after you spend years making a bunch of it somewhere else" culture we have here.

Jax does seem like a city who's geography would make it ideal to be a huge economic center by now though.

The Landing was supposed to be the springboard to the cores future. It was great in the beginning. We had boat taxi’s along with the river walk. No matter how hard the city tried they just couldn’t keep people interested in downtown.

[mwalker96]

Originally Posted by logybogy

Jacksonville is very segregated. I don't see a good solution for Downtown development without gentrification and displacing a lot of poor black people and that is controversial.

Not really, if your talking racially. My neighborhood near golfair has quite a few people and I see a ton of interacial dating all over Jacksonville. Economically it's seregated but not so much racially.

[Vocal Banned]

Originally Posted by JBtwinz

The Landing was supposed to be the springboard to the cores future. It was great in the beginning. We had boat taxi’s along with the river walk. No matter how hard the city tried they just couldn’t keep people interested in downtown.

This sounds very cool. So what was the problem the Landing? What is that people lived too far away from it when they could get similar amenities at San Marco or the beaches? Or what is the amount of homeless people in the area? Not enough restaurants? Too few things to do? It seems like it attracted its fair share of people at first so I’m wondering what caused it to die.

[Florida2014]

Originally Posted by Vocal Banned

This sounds very cool. So what was the problem the Landing? What is that people lived too far away from it when they could get similar amenities at San Marco or the beaches? Or what is the amount of homeless people in the area? Not enough restaurants? Too few things to do? It seems like it attracted its fair share of people at first so I’m wondering what caused it to die.

The list of tenants wasn't great (see: Hooters) and there was definitely an vibe down there that you never felt totally safe. It wasn't the family friendly venue that they had hoped for, there were many acts of violence there even before the mass shooting at the gamer's convention in 2018, which seemed to be the final nail in the coffin.

[JBtwinz]

Originally Posted by Florida2014

The list of tenants wasn't great (see: Hooters) and there was definitely an vibe down there that you never felt totally safe. It wasn't the family friendly venue that they had hoped for, there were many acts of violence there even before the mass shooting at the gamer's convention in 2018, which seemed to be the final nail in the coffin.

We would grab a drink after attending an event at the Moran Theatre and it definitely had a different vibe after dark. The city increased the police presence but it was not enough to bring back the patrons.

It’s tough about the Omni, we used to see a concert or show at the Moran and stay there if we could catch a special on the rooms. It was nice just waking across the street but now with Covid-19 the Omni must be like a ghost town.

[Jandrew5]

The obvious answer imo is the fact of how Jacksonville is built. Jacksonville is large on paper, because its consolidated with the county. In reality, Jax is like 4-5 smaller cities meshed into one. Outer Duval has nothing in common with the St Johns area, which has nothing in common with north Jax and so on. The focus is on improving their own neighborhoods rather than the city as a whole.

Tampa, St Pete, and Orlando are building out their cores because they don't have this issue. Theres much better cooperation, more city control, and the suburban and rural areas have much less influence. And Miami is just a different breed altogether, but imagine Homestead being able to greatly influence what happens in Miami.

The other cities also have less space to work with. Why does Jax need to densify when Duval is wide open. And with that, Jax has the least opportunities to benefit from density, like transit. You could say "well Houston is huge and sprawly too", but Houston a. is much larger, b. has multiple clusters, c. has a better foundation, d. isnt consolidated with the county, so it can focus on itself better.

Jax is also pretty segregated, the leadership is more conservative and "keep things how they are focused", lack of any real vision for downtown, and the church has hogged a lot of land - same issue in Clearwater.

Jax is still growing, and growing fast. It's just a different kind of growth and it's just what the city was groomed into. Jax is like the Charlotte of Florida, while Tampa, Orlando, and St Pete are more like Baltimores, and Miami is the Chicago. That's just how it is. Jax is booming, but its a low scale suburban strip, office park boom where everyone stays on their side.

[_Uncommon_]

Originally Posted by Jandrew5

The obvious answer imo is the fact of how Jacksonville is built. Jacksonville is large on paper, because its consolidated with the county. In reality, Jax is like 4-5 smaller cities meshed into one. Outer Duval has nothing in common with the St Johns area, which has nothing in common with north Jax and so on. The focus is on improving their own neighborhoods rather than the city as a whole.

Tampa, St Pete, and Orlando are building out their cores because they don't have this issue. Theres much better cooperation, more city control, and the suburban and rural areas have much less influence. And Miami is just a different breed altogether, but imagine Homestead being able to greatly influence what happens in Miami.

The other cities also have less space to work with. Why does Jax need to densify when Duval is wide open. And with that, Jax has the least opportunities to benefit from density, like transit. You could say "well Houston is huge and sprawly too", but Houston a. is much larger, b. has multiple clusters, c. has a better foundation, d. isnt consolidated with the county, so it can focus on itself better.

Jax is also pretty segregated, the leadership is more conservative and "keep things how they are focused", lack of any real vision for downtown, and the church has hogged a lot of land - same issue in Clearwater.

Jax is still growing, and growing fast. It's just a different kind of growth and it's just what the city was groomed into. Jax is like the Charlotte of Florida, while Tampa, Orlando, and St Pete are more like Baltimores, and Miami is the Chicago. That's just how it is. Jax is booming, but its a low scale suburban strip, office park boom where everyone stays on their side.

Interesting post. Can you elaborate on what you mean when you compare Tampa, St. Pete, and Orlando to Baltimore, Miami to Chicago, and Jax to Charlotte?

[Jandrew5]

Originally Posted by _Uncommon_

Interesting post. Can you elaborate on what you mean when you compare Tampa, St. Pete, and Orlando to Baltimore, Miami to Chicago, and Jax to Charlotte?

I'm strictly talking how they're built. Miami is like Chicago, right on the water, tall towers for miles, but the scene can become low scale and full of SFH's very quick, yet still pretty dense. Tampa, St Pete, and Orlando have moderate skylines and a mesh of old and new styles and all are focused on urbanizing.

I'm well aware of what's going on in uptown Charlotte, but in general, Jax has taken a lower density, sprawled, strip mall and office park approach. The St Johns/southside area is Charlotte but flat. Jax lacks much of a grid, as does Charlotte and both cities are a large area. And even though it's on the coast, Jax is the only city in FL with a real freeway loop, like Charlotte. Even the 485/85 and the 295/202 interchanges are practically the same.

[projectmaximus]

There is no one single answer. It's been a comedy of errors and bad luck over many decades. If you look at photos and videos from the 1930s-50s, Jax's downtown was huge and vibrant so not only has it not boomed, but it has gotten light years worse than it once was.

I'll touch on one aspect that probably hasn't been mentioned (I did not read through the thread). Cameron Kuhn is credited to some degree with birthing the Downtown Orlando renaissance. I think he got the ball rolling with over a dozen major rehabs/developments in and around Orlando's core. He had tremendous "success" in the late 90s and early 2000s and then he made his way up I-95 to be the savior of Jax's downtown. After proposing some similar game changing projects and closing on several downtown properties for over $50 Million, his financial house of cards came crumbling down. Although he was actually a decent developer, he wasn't actually covering his debts and wasn't able to meet his financial obligations despite huge money/incentives from the cities he was working with. His foray into Jax came during the boom years of 2005-2007...Jax put all its chips on Kuhn and expected a similar renaissance to Orlando, but it obviously ended very badly and Jax had zilch to show for it. Orlando also suffered negative impacts...Kuhn didn't hold up his end of several deals...but at least Orlando came away with Wall Street, the Plaza, etc.

[germanoricua]

Originally Posted by KY_Transplant

Jax has nothing to attract visitors or residents to downtown. It is literally a dead city, no one uses the River walk, there are hardly any decent restaurants to eat at and hotels are few and far between. A really underwhelming city in a beautiful location. Has so much potential.

I agree with this. I really like the Jax downtown skyline with the bridges over the St. John's River and I also liked the Landing at the beginning when we lived there. Concerts at the landing with a view over the river were really nice.

Also there is Metropolitan Park not far away.

But as you all say, Jax downtown is dead. In 2006 when we moved there, I had a little hope it would get better. But that was not the case. There was not much happening downtown, and eventually it became even worse.

Yes, it is a shame because it could be beautiful.