[Irishtom29]

If we didn't want Spanish speaking Americans we shouldn't have extorted Florida from Spain and stolen Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California from Mexico.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

If we didn't want Spanish speaking Americans we shouldn't have extorted Florida from Spain and stolen Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California from Mexico.

Yeah. You're right.

The descendants of the dozens of Spaniards in Florida who were here when the United States "extorted" the land Spain stole from the Indians are just clamoring for Spanish to be an official language of Florida, huh?


And let's not forget those lands we "stole" from the Mexicans, who couldn't hold on to the stolen land they took from Spain for more than a couple decades. The 9% of Mexican Americans who trace their ancestry back to the first Spanish settlers in Texas and California, I'm sure, are just so angry that where they live never managed to live up to the potential of the average Mexican state.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Yeah. You're right.

The descendants of the dozens of Spaniards in Florida who were here when the United States "extorted" the land Spain stole from the Indians are just clamoring for Spanish to be an official language of Florida, huh?


And let's not forget those lands we "stole" from the Mexicans, who couldn't hold on to the stolen land they took from Spain for more than a couple decades. The 9% of Mexican Americans who trace their ancestry back to the first Spanish settlers in Texas and California, I'm sure, are just so angry that where they live never managed to live up to the potential of the average Mexican state.

You missed my point, perhaps on purpose. When you steal land from Spanish speaking peoples you lose your right to take umbrage at the speaking of Spanish. The Spanish language came with the deal, so to speak, along with the Spanish speaking people, how many or few there were. Be happy with the land.

By the way, the Spaniards and Mexicans you bumrap were tolerant of the native tongues of the Indians and didn't act like crybabies about it, they were content with the land and power over it's inhabitants.

[GHOSTRIDER AZ]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

You missed my point, perhaps on purpose. When you steal land from Spanish speaking peoples you lose your right to take umbrage at the speaking of Spanish. The Spanish language came with the deal, so to speak, along with the Spanish speaking people, how many or few there were. Be happy with the land.

By the way, the Spaniards and Mexicans you bumrap were tolerant of the native tongues of the Indians and didn't act like crybabies about it, they were content with the land and power over it's inhabitants.

Well you are off slightly . The United States did not "Steal the American south west or the Florida Territory.
General Santa Anna after he lost the American -Mexican War Sold to the USA for 12Million and I think congress countered with 10 Million US Dollars. That was call the Gladsen Purchase of 1854.We purchased Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California. Santa Anna had bigger designs to conquer the Central America Region. We was very political and well educated (In Spain) man.

Florida on the other hand was never in no one control from the Days Ponce Deleon. Florida was controlled by the French (Hugennauts). The French were slaughtered by the Spaniards, thus Hugennauts national Park. The English had Control of St. Augustine , Castile San Marcos. It goes on and on.

Believe we have even spoke about the Revolution War, War of 1812 and the Seminal wars, but you get the drift!

Now I am drawing from Memory and may be off, but not that far off. The words "stolen from Mexico" is a open boarders political view. Its not true at all!

[GHOSTRIDER AZ]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

If we didn't want Spanish speaking Americans we shouldn't have extorted Florida from Spain and stolen Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California from Mexico.

Read your History Books!

[masonbauknight]

@Irish Tom. Spain took these lands from the natives. They lost these lands to the U.S. through wars with Americans, just as many European countries' modern borders are based on winning wars, most of which were waged centuries ago.

No one is saying Spanish should be stamped out in these former Spanish territories (or French in Louisiana), but English prevails in these places now. Even majority-Hispanic cities like San Antonio and El Paso are functionally English-speaking on every level, with English-language schools and universities. Many people do speak Spanish at home and can request services in Spanish. (In New Mexico, bilingual services are the law, spelled out in the 1848 treaty between Mexico and the United States.) But all these territories pretty much operate in English, and it is the de facto language.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

Well you are off slightly . The United States did not "Steal the American south west or the Florida Territory.
General Santa Anna after he lost the American -Mexican War Sold to the USA for 12Million and I think congress countered with 10 Million US Dollars. That was call the Gladsen Purchase of 1854.We purchased Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California. Santa Anna had bigger designs to conquer the Central America Region. We was very political and well educated (In Spain) man.

The Mexican War was fought as a war of conquest; The United States provoked the Mexicans then declared war. We invaded and conquered large parts of northern Mexico and then an American army invaded central Mexico by way of Vera Cruz and attacked an captured the City of Mexico. We presented Mexico with territorial demands for which we were willing to pay a small sum, otherwise we wouldn't leave Mexico. It was like Don Corleone making them an offer they couldn't refuse. Theft, extortion.

Spanish Florida was invaded by an American army under Andrew Jackson who high handedly hanged Englishmen in Florida and attacked Indians and escaped slaves. The Spanish, fearing an American invasion of conquest inevitable sold Florida and got what they could. Another example of extortion.

Listen, The United States, like any great power, has taken what it can, often by hook or by crook. Wars of conquest we fought were the War of 1812 (fought to conquer Canada but the Brits kicked our ass), the Mexican War, Spanish American War and various Indian wars. That's the way it went. Certainly I benefit by these actions and gladly too but I still think we should understand our history, it's more fun with warts and all.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

Read your History Books!

I own several hundred history books and have read thousands.

Just the other night I was rereading Grant's memoirs, the part in which he relates his experiences in the Mexican War and his opinion it was one of the most unjust wars ever fought. Have you read Grant's memoirs? Good reading, the man was an incredibly lucid and elegant writer.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by masonbauknight

No one is saying Spanish should be stamped out in these former Spanish territories (or French in Louisiana), but English prevails in these places now. Even majority-Hispanic cities like San Antonio and El Paso are functionally English-speaking on every level, with English-language schools and universities. Many people do speak Spanish at home and can request services in Spanish. (In New Mexico, bilingual services are the law, spelled out in the 1848 treaty between Mexico and the United States.) But all these territories pretty much operate in English, and it is the de facto language.

You're right of course. But I have an affinity for the Spanish and Mexicans and jump to their defense.

[vaughanwilliams]

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

Well you are off slightly . The United States did not "Steal the American south west or the Florida Territory.
General Santa Anna after he lost the American -Mexican War Sold to the USA for 12Million and I think congress countered with 10 Million US Dollars. That was call the Gladsen Purchase of 1854.We purchased Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California. Santa Anna had bigger designs to conquer the Central America Region. We was very political and well educated (In Spain) man.

It's the Gadsden Purchase, not Gladsen, and the U.S. bought southern Arizona and a sliver of New Mexico.