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I BLUSH... thanks for the kind words, insults are high praise. It means you have no facts to substantiate your argument and thus have capitulated.. . .
And No, there is no such thing as a sovereign citizen. Sovereigns and citizens are mutually exclusive.
But you know that already.
. . .
LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
- - - Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.
. . .
I can't quite see where Federal Reserve NOTES are "gold or silver coin."
Perhaps you might point that out.
Feel free to post the LAW that says FRNs are lawful money...
TITLE 12, CHAPTER 3, SUBCHAPTER XII, sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
" Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be OBLIGATIONS of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
This says those notes shall be redeemed in lawful money, on demand. But CONgress stopped redeeming their notes in 1933. That's because they're bankrupt.
Last edited by Lizap; 01-23-2024 at 11:07 PM..
Reason: Deleted prior poster’s comment
I BLUSH... thanks for the kind words, insults are high praise.
And btw, you're calling American law "garbage."
And No, there is no such thing as a sovereign citizen. Sovereigns and citizens are mutually exclusive.
But you know that already.
. . .
LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
- - - Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.
. . .
I can't quite see where Federal Reserve NOTES are "gold or silver coin."
Perhaps you might point that out.
Feel free to post the LAW that says FRNs are lawful money...
TITLE 12, CHAPTER 3, SUBCHAPTER XII, sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
" Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be OBLIGATIONS of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
This says those notes shall be redeemed in lawful money, on demand. But CONgress stopped redeeming their notes in 1933. That's because they're bankrupt.
You can read the Federal Reserve info on the subject at https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/money_15197.htm Note that the Federal Reserve Act does not define lawful money. Also note that there are numerous court cases on the subject as identified in the FR site.
Last edited by Lizap; 01-23-2024 at 11:08 PM..
Reason: Deleted prior poster’s comment
Where does money go? Who is holding the debt that the government has to pay off?
Is it mostly really rich people or banks that hold the debt that the US has to pay off? Like who are these creditors?
Instead of paying taxes the rich own the debt (so, the US has to pay them interest on it). I love it when a plan comes together. Perhaps the best government money can buy.
Instead of paying taxes the rich own the debt (so, the US has to pay them interest on it). I love it when a plan comes together. Perhaps the best government money can buy.
Actually only about 15% of US debt is held by private investors in the US and much of it is held by your average Joe Public through mutual funds. About 20% of the debt is held by other parts of the US government - things like SS funds are required to be held in this type of debt and in federal retirement accounts. About 15% of this debt is held to fund state and local pensions.
The government isn't stupid. Well, the people who run it are. They're monumentally stupid. But even stupid people have smart lawyers. The longer they put off paying the debt, the better off they are.
Let's say that I owe you a dollar, but I keep putting off paying it back. Finally 10 years later I hand you a dollar and say "Sorry it took so long. Now we're even". But that dollar I just handed you is worth only a fraction of the dollar I borrowed 10 years ago due to inflation.
Doesn't matter, all I legally owe you is a dollar. So multiply that dollar a gazillion times, and the longer the government takes to pay it back, the more it comes out smelling like a rose.
But what about the interest you say? That's probably fixed, and in any case it's not nearly as big a factor as the principle.
Then there is always Plan B (and I suspect this is what is going to happen). The government is simply not going to pay it back. They may cite national security concerns, or a war starts and they pay it back in munitions and arms, or grain, or they stick their tongue out w/ their hands at their head and wiggle their fingers and say "Nah, nah ne, nah nah". The lawyers will have a hundred different reasons why it can't be paid back.
Then it will go to The World Bankruptcy Court and the creditors will have to settle for repossessing California, Texas and Florida, leaving the rest of the country to say, "Thank God. I thought we'd never get rid of them".
Last edited by stephenMM; 01-27-2024 at 03:42 PM..
The dollar has been used as the global reserve currency since the end of WW2.
That increases the value of the dollar, which makes whatever the U.S. wants to sell to the rest of the world expensive but what latter can sell very cheap.
With that, trade deficits take place (which started in the mid '70s), and to be able to spend more, the U.S. has to take on more debt.
That started with voodoo economics from the early 1980s onward:
Also, it's not just government but total debt, including that owed by the commercial sector. In addition, the largest creator of credit isn't the government or the Fed (which isn't so much a central bank as a private consortium of Wall Street banks) but commercial banks and private financial corporations in general. The largest component of credit created consists of unregulated derivatives, or financial side bets.
More countries slowly move away from the dollar. At some point, that borrowing and spending binge ends.
The government isn't stupid. Well, the people who run it are. They're monumentally stupid. But even stupid people have smart lawyers. The longer they put off paying the debt, the better off they are.
Let's say that I owe you a dollar, but I keep putting off paying it back. Finally 10 years later I hand you a dollar and say "Sorry it took so long. Now we're even". But that dollar I just handed you is worth only a fraction of the dollar I borrowed 10 years ago due to inflation.
Doesn't matter, all I legally owe you is a dollar. So multiply that dollar a gazillion times, and the longer the government takes to pay it back, the more it comes out smelling like a rose.
But what about the interest you say? That's probably fixed, and in any case it's not nearly as big a factor as the principle.
Then there is always Plan B (and I suspect this is what is going to happen). The government is simply not going to pay it back. They may cite national security concerns, or a war starts and they pay it back in munitions and arms, or grain, or they stick their tongue out w/ their hands at their head and wiggle their fingers and say "Nah, nah ne, nah nah". The lawyers will have a hundred different reasons why it can't be paid back.
Then it will go to The World Bankruptcy Court and the creditors will have to settle for repossessing California, Texas and Florida, leaving the rest of the country to say, "Thank God. I thought we'd never get rid of them".
Is most of the 33 trillion dollar debt is it to other countries or the federal reserve?
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