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I have a border collie mix thing, she is very happy to hang with her people but fine if we go to work for 9 hrs and she gets to nap in a sunbeam. She is very independent, yet bonded, a working house dog.
... A breeder is giving away a retired Fox Red lab, but I am hesitant on that one, but it is tempting. Older dog would be my preference...
We have a Sllver Lab and have battled skin issues forever so I would definitely ask for vet records. How old? Labs' average life expectancy is 10 to 12 years.
We have a Sllver Lab and have battled skin issues forever so I would definitely ask for vet records. How old? Labs' average life expectancy is 10 to 12 years.
cd : O)
Oh, I know about the skin issues! The lab we had was a yellow lab. Ever look at all the preparations for skin issues for dogs? Almost everyone shows a yellow lab on the label.
I'm not sure how old, just "retired". The yellow lab we adopted came from an animal control unit, and had been bred, then passed around to what is thought to be several people before she was abandoned. Probably 6, 7 or 8 and lived another 8 years with us. She was a tough old girl!
Thanks for your input. I know silver labs are becoming popular, as are these Fox Red and now white. I had some concerns after watching a YouTube video, as when breeding for color, they sometimes ignore defects.
It is a tough decision. I am trying to avoid breeders altogether, but that is pretty tough with the competition for shelter dogs these days.
OP: You're giving this time and thought. That's a good thing!
Better, much better, than photos is MEETING the dog. There is so much you can't see in a photo. And the descriptions that come from rescue groups! Oh my. Well, I'll just fall back on it's BETTER to meet the dog. Much better. First off, just look at all the different ways people describe "independent"!
People often read things into what they see. And the words we have to describe dog behavior are not well-defined. Which is surprising, but true. One person will use the words "pack", or "bonded", and another might, too, but they'll mean something significantly different. Or they'll have their rose-colored glasses on, and not see the true colors, if you know what I mean.
Oregon's description
Quote:
Short version is that they really don't care a lot whether or not you are pleased.
An independent dog might be affectionate, but it is when he wants some attention, not when you want it.
Mostly seen in breeds that were developed to work on their own and not in cooperation with a human. They have been bred to work without human input. Although that is not universally true. There are breeds that were intended to work on their own that have discovered that they prefer a place by the fire and a lot of treats and cuddles.
is what I would say. Biologically, one of the traits that make up dogs is a desire to please people (particularly THEIR human). Usually it's called biddability. Having it, or not having it, isn't the same as social bonding (affection). LGD are notorious for NOT having biddability. They have what they think is important in life, and that's that. Of course, there is individual variation in all breeds. Another example of independence, though, are hounds, like, say, beagles. They were bred to sniff, and chase, and run. And those things matter more to them than pleasing you.
My wife and son picked up a rescue hound once, while I was traveling on a job. That dog loved to escape, and so we had a rather adversarial relationship for years. She loved to run, sniff, and eat - and pleasing us came a distant 4th. But she WAS a lover! Anyway, that all changed when I finally figured out things would work better if I gave her a daily RUN. Which she got for the rest of her life. And we came to a better mutual understanding.
I am seeing this more often used in the description of an adult dog. I am really not sure what it means, so asking for thoughts of others. Thank you.
My guess is that maybe it isn't all clingy, and is probably more on the stubborn side, which are two characteristics that really work for me!
In an adult dog that has been surrendered it is usually a euphemism for difficult to train/needs an experienced handler.
There are independent dogs like livestock guardian breeds and hounds. There are also high drive dogs that will push you around if you are not experienced with those types of dogs. A friend of mine breeds working kelpies and koolies, he often gets farmers who struggle going from collies to kelpies. Collies are so handler orientated and eager to please, but kelpies want you to tell them what you want done and then leave them to go do it. And if they get it wrong, they'll tell you you gave them the wrong instructions. Lol.
That to me is what an "independent" dog looks like.
In an adult dog that has been surrendered it is usually a euphemism for difficult to train/needs an experienced handler.
There are independent dogs like livestock guardian breeds and hounds. There are also high drive dogs that will push you around if you are not experienced with those types of dogs. A friend of mine breeds working kelpies and koolies, he often gets farmers who struggle going from collies to kelpies. Collies are so handler orientated and eager to please, but kelpies want you to tell them what you want done and then leave them to go do it. And if they get it wrong, they'll tell you you gave them the wrong instructions. Lol.
That to me is what an "independent" dog looks like.
Yup! Well said. Except when he says collies, in my experience he's talking about Border Collies - not rough collies (who've mostly lost their working instinct), nor other collies.
Yup! Well said. Except when he says collies, in my experience he's talking about Border Collies - not rough collies (who've mostly lost their working instinct), nor other collies.
Yeah, short haired border collies. It's rare to find long haired working dogs in Australia given the climate. Although in Tasmania, the Smithfield, a collie type which is all but extinct in the rest of the world, is still used as a working dog.
Someone mentioned "kelpies", and interestingly, I am seeing Kelpie mixes available (we do have agriculture and some homesteaders here), and I thought "probably not". I had an English Shepherd, wonderful dog, but she thought I just wasn't that sharp, so always, for almost 15 years, she questioned my judgement, especially about people and who to associate with or not - good judge though as it turned out. She loved some from first glance, but others...........
It is a tough decision, and a dog (breed) that leans very heavily toward being obedient is my first choice, and I am trying hard to look at only shelter dogs. I am a very experienced dog owner, and an "alpha", I rule, but appreciate stubborn to a point.
The weather here is finally getting better after a very cold winter, so I am getting serious about making a choice. It is such a BIG decision, and having done it before, I know it will be "challenging" no matter the dog.
Shelter and humane societies have several terms they use to describe the behavior of the dogs. Some I think, "Yeah, I know what that means! No thanks!"
Thanks again!
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