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Forgive me while I hijack the subject, but only slightly, I think. We talked about how you can't find people talking about certain traits in a breed. I think that started with skittishness. In a breeder group I belong to today was a post, and I've copied just a bit of it, and deleted the breed identification. FWIW, it's not Border Collies, but a different farmcollie type. I think the guardiness/alerting functions are less strong, generally, in BC.
This is a specific reference to guardiness/alerting on strangers and/or strangeness, which is strong in this breed. Obviously, this standoffishness/sharpness is well-known amongst the old hands. But, I don't think I've ever seen it in a breed description.
I just thought this example might be of interest here.
Well. We went on another loooooong walk around the lake today. (This dog is either going to get me into fabulous shape or kill me. One of the two will happen.) He barked at the very first guy we passed, who was walking, but after that? He didn't bark at anyone passing by. He did, of course, still bark at other dogs.
I worked on something last night on our loooooong 'before bed' walk, (I'm serious, I think this dog is going to kill me, I'm so tired!), at 2am (after working) around the lanes of the complex since no one was around. I know he wants to chase squirrels, but I also wanted to see if he would come back after a short distance. I took a chance.
This dog has been trained - so I still wonder why on earth would they have given him up to the shelter.
I let him walk ahead of me, leash dragging on the ground, because I literally did not have the energy to keep up the pace after working. I made a slight whistle noise (I seriously cannot whistle like every body else on this earth), and he came back, happily and eagerly.
Interesting.
So, I decided that I would use that noise to get his attention to focus on me regarding anything. We practiced it for about an hour (I'm about halfway to death now) and he came back, excitedly, every single time.
On the walk today, he had a big, fat cow about 2 hound dogs walking a decent space behind us. So, I did my pathetic whistle sound, and he kinda sorta paid attention, but then refocused on them, at first. But, I kept doing it, and after about...5 times, he started focusing on me each time and stopped turning around every 2 seconds to look at the hounds and thinking of barking.
I think it's going to be ridiculously easy to train this dog. Either he is the smartest dog in the world and can read my mind, or he has been trained, already. I'm just giving him new cues, and he picks them up, fast.
Last night, when he came each time, I praised the snot out of him, allowing him to jump up and try to hug me, I kissed him all over his face and head, every single time, and told him that he was a goodboi. He ate that up.
So - not sure what changed with 'other people' - although he still doesn't like them coming up to him. I was in the pet store the other day, and a wonderful boy came down the aisle and asked if he could pet my dog. I told him that I just got the dog from the shelter and wasn't sure how he would react, but go slow and see if he's okay with it. The boy started to reach towards my dog, and while my dog didn't bark or growl, he backed up. Felt so bad for the kid - he was such a good kid, knew how to act around animals...I wish my dog would have let him be rewarded for being so conscientious. The boy was very understanding, though.
Today, on the walk, someone wanted to know if they could say 'hi' to my dog, and I explained that he doesn't appear to be too fond of other people. He doesn't go off on people, he just doesn't want them touching him. I'm okay with that, and maybe he'll get used to people on these marathon walks that I am positive will leave me dead on the trail one day. Then he'll have to find a new owner. (This dog has been conked out for over an hour since we got back, that's how much exercise I've been giving him.)
Anyway, some positive steps in the right direction, he's not barking at all the males jogging by, not even the guy on the bike...just one guy at the very beginning. Everyone else he passes, he likes to turn and follow them for a second. I keep walking straight, because I'm not going to have my dog herding everyone on the trails around the lake, but that appears to be what he's trying to do: Herd them away from me. Which, honestly, is pretty dang funny. As long as he keeps a cool demeanor, I'm okay with it.
I also thought about what was said about him being hormonal right now since he just got snipped. Maybe that is the case as the first day we went out was the day after he was snipped, and today was 4 days after. We'll see where he is in 2 weeks with his decisions on who is free to pass and who needs a good barking.
I love that you found such a special dog !! My vet would scold me if I exercised
a just neutered dog as much as you have. Hoping it turns
out okay but I did it by mistake to a foster dog I had and her stiches became all inflamed so had to rest her hard for at least five days.
Again , very excited for you to have found such a clever dog.
You definitely honored Sakari’s memory by adopting a dog that really needed you. One dog never replaces another but have unique personalities to enjoy. I lost my heart dog 5 years ago and still miss her even though I have 2 precious babies.
More This is so beautiful I wish, I hope you have so many years together. The cats probably miss Sakari too. They just hide how they feel many times. I'm so glad you adopted this new furry family member
Last edited by staystill; 09-20-2022 at 06:49 PM..
Reason: typo
I just watched a video about 'resource guarding' as I was looking for answers on why he barks at other dogs on walks.
I have always viewed 'resources' to be food and toys.
Well, it turns out, I can be a 'resource' that he is guarding. The presenter stated 'food, toys, affection' (from the dog owner), and I thought maybe that could be the case. I have poured on the affection with this dog, basically returning his level of affection, and that could be the issue. He's 'guarding' his 'resource' from other dogs. When we are on walks, he's not eating, he's not playing with toys, but he's with me, and this dog loves to be with me.
As I said earlier, any time I'm up and walking, this dog is following me everywhere. He wants affection all the time. When we walk before bed time, I am training him, and he's getting a ton of affection (as I prefer not to have to 'bribe' him with treats - I want him to do what I ask because he wants to do it), so it makes complete sense to me.
Also, as is known, when dogs are on leash, the entire dynamics are different than they are when dogs are not on leash. The presenter stated that he never tries to socialize his dogs while on walks - because the dog could be 'resource guarding' (you) from other dogs, and because of the leash, which changes how dogs act towards each other.
When I met him at the shelter, I picked him up after he kept trying to hug me, and he was wanting to see the dog in the kennel on the other side of the wall from him. That dog was standing on its bed, and looking over the wall to see us. My dog didn't have a single issue with that dog - he was rather interested in that other dog.
I'm not going to stop giving him affection, because he's doing what I ask because he wants to - what he gets in return is highly valuable to him - my affection. I don't typically try to introduce my dogs to other dogs on walks, anyway, because I'v never thought that was a good setting or a proper way to introduce dogs to each other, and this guy is confirming what I've always thought.
So, I'll just keep working on the refocusing, but it definitely helps to understand 'why' he's doing it.
I have no idea how he would be with other dogs under supervised off leash time, plus I would still be there. I don't plan on sending him to 'doggy daycare' anyway, so I'm not going to worry about it unless I see that it's becoming very aggressive. He doesn't act like Shasta did, who was afraid of other dogs, he just acts like he's trying to keep the dogs away.
I never knew that I could be the 'highly desirable resource'. I mean, Shasta and Sakari, and even Pandora from years ago, really enjoyed my company, but I can assure you that Pandora liked puppies better than me, Shasta liked food and me, equally, and Sakari, yes, she liked me, but to her, the most 'valuable' asset to her was 'everything on the earth, omg, hi everyone and everything! HI!!!!'
With this dog, he really likes me. He really wants my affection, and he wants to be right next to me all the time.
He hates it when I'm gone - I came home tonight to my blinds completely destroyed. Broken slats, bent in every way possible - total destruction. He whines when I get back, as if I had abandoned him.
So - tomorrow, I get to remove all of my computer stuff - back up battery, modem, router, out of the crate, (I've been using it as a desk, and put those things in there to keep the cats from messing with them), put the dog bed in there, and that is where he will be while I'm out working. No more free range. I'll take a destroyed blind as my lesson over what else he might destroy if I give him the house to chew on.
Plus, while as far as I can tell he's been okay with the cats (they aren't hiding from him), better to be on the safe side while I'm gone. No Shasta repeats.
ThreeWolves, this is my favorite thread. Like so many others reading, thank you for sharing the great news and the updates! I am learning a lot from reading here. And I understand very well the feelings about your wonderful new dog (he is absolutely beautiful!), while still dealing with the aftershock of Sakari's passing. Her spirit will always be in your heart.
Keir S. Chaser -- LOVE his name! He is so fortunate that you found him. I'm very happy for him and for you.
Your work with him helps me understand and do better with my own dog. I adopted a new little dog recently too, similar to your story. Happy and also a little worried about my ability to move forward after the loss of my special dog, but it feels good to have a wonderful little dog who needed a caring, safe home. I wish you were here in Maine so we could get our two together. I think they'd do well socializing and help each other get exercise.
He hates it when I'm gone - I came home tonight to my blinds completely destroyed. Broken slats, bent in every way possible - total destruction. He whines when I get back, as if I had abandoned him.
So - tomorrow, I get to remove all of my computer stuff - back up battery, modem, router, out of the crate, (I've been using it as a desk, and put those things in there to keep the cats from messing with them), put the dog bed in there, and that is where he will be while I'm out working. No more free range. I'll take a destroyed blind as my lesson over what else he might destroy if I give him the house to chew on.
Plus, while as far as I can tell he's been okay with the cats (they aren't hiding from him), better to be on the safe side while I'm gone. No Shasta repeats.
Mine do better in confined to a room than a crate. They react very poorly to crates, and it's never been enough of an issue to me to worry about it. I just put them in the bedroom and close the door. FWIW.
Given a choice, they almost always would rather go with me somewhere in the car, EVEN IF it means they have to sit and wait in the car while I'm in a meeting or in a store where they are not welcome. They don't like being in stores much anyway, but sometimes they would still rather go in the store than not. And they KNOW what being in the store is like for them.
For mine, and for their breed, the velcro thing is strong, and I'm pretty sure there is a difference between what people call "separation anxiety" and what mine do. They aren't USUALLY destructive, although it has happened once or twice. I think their internal command-set (instincts, I suppose you could say) to stay next to me is just that strong, where "normal" separation anxiety is more fear-based. I think. It's not something I've had to deal with extensively.
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This is so beautiful I wish, I hope you have so many years together. The cats probably miss Sakari too. They just hide how they feel many times. I'm so glad you adopted this new furry family member 
Best thread ever!
