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You cannot ask what a person's disability is...or what services the dog does.
But, the problem is what will happen if someone' "service dog" that has no obedience training, goes for the throat of a legitimate service dog, that has had years of specialized training...
I deal with this balance on a daily basis, and the stress is killing me.
Who says you can't ask? You aren't an employer. You aren't asking about the person's disability, you are asking what service the dog performs. Yes, someone will try to link the two but too bad, they are different.
"Excuse me, is your dog a service dog? I see, can you please explain what service the dog provides? No? Well, until you explain what service the dog provides, the dog will need to stay where all the other dogs stay. Uh, no, I'm not asking about your disability, I am asking about your dog."
Also, the instant any service dog misbehaves, you have the right to protect the other patrons and ask the individual to leave the premises. If the dog so much as licks any part of your establishments equipment including furniture, you can kick them out.
You can also provide for a separate area where patrons with service dogs get served. You do this based upon the fact that others could be allergic to dog hair, afraid of dogs in general and so on. You can also do this for patrons that just show up and aren't regulars, citing that service dogs unknown to you are handled on a probationary period until you and your staff as well as other regular patrons with service dogs are introduced and that they prove to demonstrate good behavior. The regulars or those with genuine needs are fine and the people that have decided their animals just have to be with them for the animals sake get the message loud and clear.
Some states do have a registering process for service animals. It's not a difficult process, but there are two different designations for animals providing therapeutic support: 1) an Emotional Support Animal 2) a Psychiatric Service Animal. The disabled person's doctor must document the need for the animal.
I'm guessing that people trying to pass off an Emotional Support Animal as if they have the full rights compared to a Guide Dog, for example, is what concerns most people. The ESA does not have the same protections, the two locations where they are allowed is on planes and in housing.
I too have a severe physical disability that strangers wouldn't easily identify most of the time. So, I'll chime in as well that it is tiresome when people are judgmental about my health. The last time I flew the agent at the gate got snippy with me for wanting to preboard. By the time I get to the airport I'm already exhausted and in bad shape... And as a result, I broke down crying in response to her rudeness, and was absolutely mortified. Usually they're polite...and very accommodating... I'm guessing she probably was for the next person that didn't look disabled enough to her.
On the other hand, some people take advantage of extra accommodations. There are people that take a mile, when offered an inch, and being disabled won't change that.
In the case of a Guide Dog, they're highly trained and I've never seen an occassion where they've been disruptive in public.
I used to work for an airline as a customer service agent. I have 2 stories. Once a guy came to my gate, I could tell he was a bit intoxicated. He had a large German Shepard on a regular leash. He told me it was his seeing eye dog. The dog was very timid and scared, having seen many a seeing eye dogs I was suspect this was a service dog. When it was time to pre-board the flight I brought him down to the plane, and my suspicions were confirmed. The dog was terrified. I spoke with the crew. Since the guy was on a connecting flight they said let him ride as it was a 40 minute flight.
There used to be a lady who flew through the airport all the time. She was older and had a Standard Poodle. She said it was her hearing dog. I had her on my flight once, during the pre-board I allowed her to walk in front of me. In a normal tone of voice on a loud jetway I asked her what kind of dog it was. She turned around and said a Standard Poodle, I guess that dog did wonders for her hearing!!!
yes gain unfotunatly people WILL take advantage (jus tliek people borrow familiy memebers hndcap pases to park wherever they want and people fke injuries to sue...)
does that mean i as an invisiably disabled person shoudl not be allowed a service dog and only blind people can have one because you can kinda sorta tell usually when someone is blind?!
what about that blind person whome you cant tell, or that faker who simply wears dark glases, people have been taking advantage of the title "disabled' for years.
I knew someonelegally blind who admitted on more tha one occasion he could see perfectly fund but ts "easy" to fake an eye test..he did it for better seats on air travel (he didnt have a dog) ect...
THAT person i consider a crazy moron...noone in their right mind WANTS to eb disabled...least i sure as hel dont and i AM crazy!
in terms of universal requirments...that too then becomes a slipperly slope...my dr says i would benefit for a service dog. but my dr before her said she "didnt belive in" service dogs...which dr is right?! who decideds i im disabled enough to have a service dog, or if my specific disablity should be classed as one "allowed" a dog.
and then the testing...what if my dogs mos timportant service cant be trained "on cue"....
nd then who decides if a trained task (after all a service dog is a dog TRAINED to do specific tasks in relation to a disability...an ALERT dog is not service dog unless that alert dog is also task trained to RESPOND... just because my dog tells me im going to have a seizure doesnt make him a servicedog...what will mke him a serivce dog is training him to do specific tasks that would help me before during and afte a seizure (ie pressing the emergency phone button, bringing emergency medication, retreving help or staying with me depending on seizure type, providing balance support ect)
but who gets to decide if a task is "special enough to ulify as a trained task...
ie mobility assistance dogs, the dog is trained to brace and support....to the untrained eye the dog just stands there and does nothing....who gets to decide if stnding still is enough of a trained task to warrent "service dog" labling...and what tasks one service dog needs another would have no use for...ive met 5 seizure respnce dogs over the pt 4 years...every one had a different "rep sheet" in terms of trained tsks..because each handler trains SPECIFICALLY for their needs...
allowing only "certified" dogs through a special training school or program adds to the "cant afford it (anyone here know how someone in disability woudl beble to afford a 25,000 dog?! 10,000-25,000 is the verage cost of a school trained dog and yes you have t come up with that money yourself, there are grants and yoru alowed to fund raise" ask family/frineds ect..but what about people who dont have those "lifelines" they dont deserve the freedom a service dog can bring because they cant afford hat kind of money?!
and private progras arnt cheap themselves...and no service dog is truly universal....
plus its hard enough to find a eacent puppy training clss in mny locations (My clsoest one requires me to drive over 1 hour one way) so can you imagine trying to find a trainer in even more rural areas ect.
i do think that all service dogs should have their Canine good citizen test as an "acess pass" of sorts...(any dog can pass the CgC with training but least it would take care of the "misbehaving" issues) and i think service dogs in areas that have dog licensing should be abel to be registed as such through the town and get a special dog tag...something easily identified by people who know but completly inconspicuous to anyone else...and dogs in areas with no lisencing should be able to have acess to them too...but in order to get them youd hve to provide some kind of drs form stagting drs support fo service dog use, wouldnthve to have any other etails on it, just "dr support of service dog use" and their contact info.
ect...
BUT i think anything beyond that comes to a very slippy slidy slope of "who decides"
my point being...it doesnt matter what rules you put in place...SOMEONE is going to take advantage of it and spoil it for everyone else...
and no "im afraid of dogs" is not a legitimate reason to say a service dog shoudlnt be allowed somehwre because a service dog is not going to even attempt to interact with another person unless instrcted to do so so "fear" is not a reason since its more than easy to simply not go neer the dog.
allergies...well, let me tell you...first of all, srvice dogs are impecibly groomed...
and secondly anyone wth a dog allegy bad enough to react form just being in the same room as a service dog is going to react to the dander on a dog owners clothing...so as a pet owner i should not leave my houe incase someone i mightbump into atthe grocery store is severly allergic to dogs?
Yes, anyone can buy the Service Dog vests, etc.
BUT - just because a person LOOKS fine, does not mean they don't have a legitimate need for a service dog.
I know two people who have service dogs for uses that would not show - One is a diabetic & the dog is able to detect dangerous sugar levels. Another is subject to seizures, and the dog can detect them before they happen.
Those illegitimate sales should be banned and the people pulling those scams heavily fined.
Just because one has a disability doesn't give you carte Blanche for special treatment. While it might not be your fault you have a disability (indeed, some people are disabled because of their own fault) it isn't the fault of everyone else either.
Lets take airline flights. So long as you get on the plane before it takes off and you don't have a special need that requires you have extra time being in the seat before takeoff, why should you board first? The same applies to being in line, if your disability means slowing down the progress of the line or that you are caused an unusual discomfort waiting in line, ok, but if not, wait like everyone else. People without disabilities also endure discomfort and many quite a bit from standing in lines or waiting in lines.
The person with arthritis might not qualify as a disabled person but they might also experience as much or more discomfort standing in line that one in a wheelchair.
Back to that airline flight comment. If that person has a disability that causes them to become exhausted and "in bad shape" then boarding first probably didn't help, perhaps sitting down first and waiting a little while would have. I don't get it, what is the difference between sitting down in the lounge and sitting in a plane seat? It is far easier to relax in the lounge than the plane, people are trying to get situated, it is difficult to get to restrooms and so on.
A lot of this comes down to expectations and the use of service dogs is becoming a larger problem for many businesses when people expect better treatment than others, not only the same treatment. Being disabled does not mean someone owes you something, it means if your disability causes inconvenience then a business should reasonable provide services to help you lessen that inconvenience so that your experience is comparable to everyone else's experience, not faster, not quicker, not more or less and not any better.
When it comes to service dogs, if your disability is such that the dog's services provide you with or assists you to acquire the benefits of using that business, then fine. If all you want to do is carry fiffy into the cafe because fiffy can't stand to be alone, keep it out of the cafe.
So many people these days abuse privilege and insist on rights they aren't entitled to that those with legitimate needs suffer for it through perceptions.
The idea that you can simply state you have a disability and then be afforded privilege and rights for the disabled is wrong. Then anyone can say they are disabled. The other week I parked my car as I was going to a movie. Into the disabled parking slot went a car and out jumped (literally-jumped) a man who then ran to get in line and buy a ticket.
Maybe he had restless led syndrome and need to run? The point is that who reading this will think or believe that the man's disability (if he had one and it wasn't his wife's or other family member-he was alone) required he park close to the entrance is he could run to the line?
It is always the few who ruin it for the rest. However, it then becomes the responsibility of the rest to also understand when others might question their use of privilege or right for the disabled, especially when the disability isn't obvious. We have become a society where it is almost impossible to ask anything of anyone who is disabled for fear of being labeled insensitive or in violation of some privacy law.
When you ask for a privilege or right reserved for others, then by golly have the decency to help them understand and don't just demand something. That doesn't mean you have to divulge your entire medical history or even the exact nature of the disability but in the case of service dogs, at least explain what the service dog does. You are asking for something from others, you demand the same for yourself. Many people with disabilities never ask for special privilege or rights so before you get all indignant and think someone is taking something from you, remember, they didn't cause your disability but your disability affects them too, something those with disabilities often forget.
None of this is directed to those with disabilities that go through their lives providing the same courtesy as given them, it is directed at those who use a disability, however slight to gain benefits above and beyond others in some idea society owes them more than everyone else.
Stores are not allowed to ask what the dog is trained to do. They are allowed to ask if the dog is a service animal and they are allowed to ask if the dog is trained to perform tasks for the handler that the handler can not perform for himself. That's it. You can ask if the dog is trained, you can not ask what the dog is trained to do.
The majority of people with service dogs are very proud of their dogs and they enjoy the human contact that they get because of the dog. As long as it doesn't look like you are trying to curtail their rights, many people with service dogs will happily talk about them, if you admire the dog when the handler has a few free minutes.
You can not tell if a person is handicapped just by looking at them.
The majority of people with service dogs are very proud of their dogs and they enjoy the human contact that they get because of the dog. As long as it doesn't look like you are trying to curtail their rights, many people with service dogs will happily talk about them, if you admire the dog when the handler has a few free minutes.
You can not tell if a person is handicapped just by looking at them.
I agree! One of my favorite things with my service dog is answering questions about her. The use of service dogs with brain injuries is not common and therefore not very well understood. Everybody who has approached me has been genuinely interested and supportive. After a full day of being out with her, and answering numerous questions about her and my disability, it occurred to me that all the questions could be offensive or hurtful to someone who was sensitive about their situation. Just something to consider if you come across a service dog. Go ahead and ask questions, but if somebody seems hesitant to answer, remember you're basically asking, "what's wrong with you?" Not everyone is comfortable answering questions.
I'm not going to get into why I need to pre-board, because my disability is none of your business, but there is a physical reason and I don't mind explaining why to the gate agent, I just don't want to be treated rudely. I'm also the last person exiting the plane for the same reason that I pre-board. Even when I upgrade to first class, I still pre-board and wait after. And I can't legally sit in an emergency row exit either and have had my seat changed by the airline, which requires that another patient have to volunteer to switch.
For many years I didn't pre-board, because I was embarrassed. I'm granted an extra few minutes along with a few other passengers, and it's not as if this is inconveniencing anyone. Should elderly people not be allowed to pre-board or those traveling with small children?
And if you think it annoys you when healthy people take advantage of accommodations meant for the disabled, how do you think the disabled feel? I've known two people that fraudulently were using handicapped parking privileges that shouldn't have been. Both needed them at one point, and when they recovered they continued using them for convenience. On both occasions I let them know that what they were doing was unethical IMO and I chose to no longer associate with them.
When I adopted my dog I considered having her trained to be a service animal and therefore she wouldn't be designated as a pet, but decided it would be taking advantage even though it would have been my "right." I personally think there will be a backlash against the rights of the disabled requiring service animals, because so many more people are asserting the need, and the inclusion of ESAs inparticular.
Edit: I just reread your previous post, and your qualifications wouldn't apply to me. I just don't see many people attempting to pre-board claiming a disability, but I don't fly very often either. I'd rather not attract the extra attention, but the consequences can be drastic. It can mean the difference between it taking 1-2 days to recover from a flight, or having to spend the next week in bed recovering. I have a whole list of things I have to do in order to prepare for flying, including taking a course of steroids.
Last edited by Litlove71; 03-08-2013 at 04:37 PM..
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