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We're waiting on another test for Cushings to come back so that might influence things. Our 13 yr old has a few large bladder stones and needs surgery. She also has an enlarged heart which makes surgery risky. I was told the prescription diets that will help prevent future stones tend to be higher in sodium which is not good for her heart. If she does have Cushings, we would change food but forego surgery. Without Cushings, surgery and still change food. So I'm trying to find out more about what presc. food might be recommended. I'm not keen on Science diet.
Told vet I'd be glad to make her food (cooked, not doing raw) and supplement with vitamins but the vet is more in favor of using a presc diet instead. Perhaps its too hard to have consistency with homemade that will work well with heart issues and Cushings.
Our vet will be checking with food company nutritionist after we get Cushings results, which is great. She'll know exactly what information she needs from them and can ask informed questions.
I'm just trying to find out more about what foods might be prescribed - I had seen mention of Hills Science from other posters. Any others?
I know her pH has been fine and no crystals in urine test so don't know composition of stones yet.
I have a cat that had a large stone removed recently, it was pretty bad, her urine was concentrated and bloody, when I finally realized something was wrong and got into the vet. (I took both cats in because I didn't know which left the bloody smear.)
Anyway, I am feeding Royal Canin - Urinary SO. As I understand it, it is designed to cause thirst AND inhbit stone formation. It does include in the ingredients potassium chloride and "salt" which I presume is sodium chloride but does not say how much. Hopefully there is a trade off on potassium chloride for sodium chloride so it isn't excessive. It seems like nothing is perfect and you are damned if you do or don't do something.
Thanks Searcher521,
I can sympathize, it took awhile before I realized what was going on with our dog, this was when we first adopted her about 8 years ago. It would be a little bit and a few drops of blood, then it would go away. I thought it was her period because it kept coming and going. I felt like a fool later on.
I just missed our vets call with the results this morning and haven't heard back, hopefully tomorrow.
She sounded more optomistic than somber which is good.
I agree, nothing is perfect, which is why I thought I could do part homemade and part prescription. Just seems it would give you more control over the sodium but then maybe in her case, she needs a certain consistency?
Its looking like Royal Canin and Science are the 2 companies that make that kind of formula, thanks for your note.
I also have a cat that had bladder stones, she had about five or six of them.
We put her on the Royal Canin Urinary SO and the stones eventually disolved so she didn't need surgery.
That was years ago and she still eats the Royal Canin and she loves it.......and no more bladder problems or stones.
I am not a fan of Hills either. Over the years I have had dogs and cats with different problems.....and when the vet said one of them needed a prescription diet they always suggested Hills.
The problem with that? I have never has a dog or cat that liked the Hills diets.
I always went with Royal Canin and Purina prescrption diets and everyone liked it.
Hi Annie,
Glad to hear that your cat was able to get better. I was curious about why I'm always hearing bad press about Hills, found some reviews that rated some of their food ok (3 on a scale of 1 to 5). Also was looking because our vet wants us to put her on Hills WD. I'm double checking on Monday because the UD is the one that is suggested for stones and I could have misheard her.
Checked the ingredients for both, neither sounds good and maybe the WD has lower sodium. The reviews for the WD are very bad. I'm researching more.
Our dog is overweight and with an enlarged heart. I was told to let her be a couch potato, very short walks. The thing is, hard to lose weight without exercise and she is pretty perky yet, so I was thinking of walking her until she gets this "stressful" look I've come to know.
She tested negative for Cushings but has so many signs of it, potbelly-has had for a few years. Even when we adopted her, she never had that abdominal incline? look. I think it was chalked up to her age (4-8 yrs). More recently rear-leg weakness, liver changes, uti's. Vet wants to keep her on Hills 6-8 weeks and then do another panel, endocrine? that's $500. She did say usually Cushings shows up on the test she just had. I'm wondering if there's another disease that is similar?
I usually go with the vets advice but the food she suggested doesn't sound so great and the recommended amt (I will ask vet too) is higher in calories than her present diet. Which makes me think its got a lot of empty calories so she needs more to get the nutritional benefit.
Still don't know what the stones are made of so that makes it a bit harder.
Midwestmom.....you are sure in a tough spot.....walking a tightrope concerning the diet.
With my kitty, Annie {myCD namesake} the vet said her stones could have developed from a urinary infection or her diet. The only way to find out which one for sure, was to let her go back on her normal diet and see if new stones developed, something I was not willing to do, considering the pain and stress involved for Annie if the stones did come back.
My vet was never concerned which brand of prescription diet I chose, but it seems like vets always mention Hills first and foremost....and I don't know why.
I had a little boy kitty, Nicky, who was on the kidney diet for years {he made it to 21}. He really liked the Purina kidney diet, but would still get tired of it, so I would switch him back and forth between the Purina and the Royal Canin and that worked well for him. He never liked the Hills at all, just would not eat it. He had also had a bad liver infection once which nearly killed him. My vet advised me to mix egg whites in with his food as it would help heal his liver.....and it sure did......within months {about 8} his liver levels were back to normal. I would hard boil eggs and smash up as much egg white into his food with a fork that he would tolerate. Too much and he just wouldn't eat it.
You are dealing with so many issues at once it is going to be hard for you to get her diet just right, but it sure sounds like you are on top of it and will figure out what is best.
I would ask the vet if the Royal Canin would be OK to use for that 6-8 week run before her next test if you feel the diet is better than the Hills, can't hurt to ask.
After that, it sure looks like you are going to have to make up your own mixture in some way....trying to balance the unrinary, heart and weight problems. Part prescription, with maybe some home made mixed in, and maybe some Nurtical to make sure she is getting all of the nutrition she needs.....if the Nutrical is OK for her to take, that is. My vet had me give Nicky Nutrical when he got to be very old just because he felt he need the extra boost nutrition-wise.
My heart goes out to you, it is so hard to deal with our babies illnesses and infirmities as they age, you just have to do the best you can. I will be sending positive thoughts your way.
My vet was never concerned which brand of prescription diet I chose, but it seems like vets always mention Hills first and foremost....and I don't know why.
This made some sense at the time—since industry already had nutrition in the bag, as it were. Our dwindling funds were better spent in other areas, were they not? Especially now that states didn’t want to fund us because we’d moved away from agribusiness support. If we wanted to survive (and survival was indeed in question for a lot of schools, including mine for a time) we had to accept some help from industry, didn’t we?
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So our researchers were hired away to more affluent industry jobs with gleaming labs and cozier retirement packages. In turn, the pet food companies promised to work closely with us in the development of their foods while sponsoring our research and funding scholarships to our students.
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Never mind that a veterinary school should be an independent research institution free from industry influence. Never mind that the pet food companies had near-full control of our profession’s future when it comes to food. Sure, there were some holdouts. But all schools were affected to one degree or another.
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Dr Michael W Fox:
Conflicts Of Interest In The Veterinary Profession And The Origin Of (http://www.twobitdog.com/drfox/specialreport_Article.aspx?ID=f78aec92-0b02-47f3-9575-cb1778647ad5 - broken link)
This renowned Veterinarian discovered the cause of Feline Diabetes II, she was a higher-up for Hill's earlier in her career. (She also has the patent on a wet cat food made by another very "big name" food.) Here is her testimony before the Senate Appropriations committee:
To OP -- may I suggest seeing if a Holistic veterinarian is near you? They treat the cause, not cover the symptoms. You can search by city, zip code...
My yorkie, Lucy, just had numerous large bladder stones removed. My vet had two different recommendations; he does not sell any food at his office.
We ended up going with Royal Canin SO, which, as the other poster said, is supposed to increase thirst and decrease the liklihood of stone formation.
Lucy loves it - we give her dry in the morning and canned at night. However, she is having some urinary incontenince since beginning the food - we are trying to get a handle on that.
Too much salt and water maybe?
Anyway, IMO, if your dog needs a prescription diet - then your dog needs a prescription diet. (Not your personally). No, it is not the food I would choose for a perfectly healthy dog. However, numerous surgeries for stones is not particularly healthy either.
I have been dealing with this problem with my 8 yr old Rita for about the last 4 years. She has had two surgeries to remove bladder stones, I have tried different combinations of food and supplements, and the stones keep coming back. She was on Science Diet, that didn't really work, had her on wellness for about a year and half without to many issues, but she still needed antibiotics. Her last bout with passing stones was awful, it took about 15 hours to pass. Now she is on Royal Canin SO. It's only been about 4 months, but so far, no blood in her urine, and she's not on any antibiotics. I will take her in and have her x-rayed to see if the stones are gone. Hoping and praying.
Not my first choice of food, but at 8 yrs it's just way to stressful and dangerous for her to have any more surgeries and to be passing stones.
Wanted to thank you all for sharing your experiences and your ideas. I have considered finding a vet that uses integrated methods of vet science and holistic but haven't found any near us. Not so sure about some holistic methods, but they do seem to be the only ones (around me anyway) who even mention nutrition.
Been reading up on high alk photophase (associated with Cushings), hers was extremely high and is taking liver treats. Also enlarged hearts and I discovered that a pot belly is associated with that heart condition too. It was her belly and her panting that had vet consider Cushings, along with food aggression and thirst, leg weakness. Her thirst isn't excessive and the belly, panting could be her heart problems, leg weakness from lack of exercise because its too hard for her now. Put in call to vet to see what she thinks. Not keen on the food, W/D but could be the Royal Canin has a higher salt content. After reading your posts, anything that will help reduce those stones seems a priority. If it doesn't help within the 6-8 weeks, then I'll consider finding out more about other food choices. I really, really wish I'd gotten an x-ray or ultrasound much sooner before so many health problems. Wasn't much choice because of financial considerations, but I wish I had tried harder to get up the funds.
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