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They reached a settlement to avoid lengthy litigation. That said, McKinsey is a global consultancy giant that has built a reputation of excellence, influence and prestige - particularly relative to opportunity/the thread.
That it has (lawfully) worked with cigarette-makers and opioid distributors does not make the company (or its employees) ‘immoral’.
So your N of 1 means that 50% of all Ivy League graduates are failures? And as a corollary, second rate college graduates have the same failure rate. Because that's what your claim was.
It is you that is not operating in reality.
No, of course - not 50% - but some Ivy League graduates will be failures. Same for second rate college graduates.
My husband attended an Ivy League college while I attended a college which ranks within the top 75 to 100 +/-. If you compare my husband's alumni notes with my alumni notes - it's same level of success. Granted those who self report usually are the ones who do well. Still, both alumni groups have same number of business achievement, doctors, lawyers etc.
I will say two more things.
First, Ivy League colleges have changed over the last 40 years. Every generation has its preferred candidates. Recruitment focuses on DEI and foreign students (who pay full boat). Add in grade inflation in high schools is off the charts. The SAT's used to be a reality check on grade inflation.. There is such a divide between grades and SAT scores now. Resulting in college making SAT scores optional in order to get their preferred candidates. While this doesn't affect the science/STEM majors, it hurts the humanities. A humanities student might actually learn more in a second rate college where DEI and woke politics aren't front and center.
Second, while my husband had great career - it came at a cost - relocations and significant business travel. Our joke was if there was an emergency - a burst pipe/water heater or a very sick child or a major storm - it was timed to my husband leaving the country. There were days when I wished I married a plumber who came home at every night for dinner. There are benefits to an average life or an average college.
Last edited by YorktownGal; 01-05-2024 at 08:16 PM..
Add in grade inflation in high schools is off the charts. The SAT's used to be a reality check on grade inflation..
Colleges assess a high-school student’s grades/GPA in context (by way of the school profile) whereas the SAT simply measures one’s overall readiness through math, reading and writing skills. Most wait until junior (and/or senior) year to take it, no matter their curriculum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal
No, of course - not 50% - but some Ivy League graduates will be failures.
How are you defining ‘failure’? That one graduates from an academically-elite college is a successful accomplishment, in and of itself.
That said, per various sources and studies (as reported in The Atlantic, Forbes and so on), 61% of Ivy League graduates become some of the highest earners in the country.
Colleges assess a high-school student’s grades/GPA in context (by way of the school profile) whereas the SAT simply measures one’s overall readiness through math, reading and writing skills. Most wait until junior (and/or senior) year to take it, no matter their curriculum.
How are you defining ‘failure’? That one graduates from an academically-elite college is a successful accomplishment, in and of itself.
That said, per various sources and studies (as reported in The Atlantic, Forbes and so on), 61% of Ivy League graduates become some of the highest earners in the country.
High schools grades are inflated.
Quote:
High School Grade Inflation Is A Problem. Getting Rid Of The SAT Would Make It Worse.
Between 2009 and 2019, the share of 12th graders taking a rigorous slate of courses rose from 60 to 63 percent and average GPA climbed from a 3.0 to a 3.11—an all-time high. But, when it came to how high school seniors actually fared on NAEP assessments (the tests known as “the nation’s report card”), science scores were flat and math scores actually fell by about 3 percent.
This is why admissions tests like the SAT and ACT are so invaluable: they offer an independent snapshot of college readiness and academic achievement. Without admissions tests that put grades in context, colleges can have a harder time keeping track of which schools hand out high grades and play transcript games in order to help their students get into college. Tests like the SAT and ACT can help level the playing field by providing a check on such machinations.
To understand grade compression, we first need to understand grade inflation. Looking at a graph of student GPAs since 1889 is sort of like looking at a graph of Harvard’s endowment: It only goes up. In 1950, when Harvey Mansfield was but a freshman at Harvard, the average GPA was estimated at 2.55. Now, it’s much closer to 3.80.
Are New York City Students Getting Smarter Or Are Regents Exams Getting Easier?
I recently chatted with a former high-level employee of the New York City Department of Education, who explained why, over the past decade, the New York City public school system has been able to dramatically improve its high school graduation rates. According to my confidential source, the reason is that New York state has steadily lowered the difficulty of its signature Regents Exams, a battery of standardized tests that most non-disabled New York students must pass before accruing a state-certified high school diploma.
I define failure as in unemployable from one too many firing.
The great thing about statistical information is it goes both ways. If 61% of Ivy League graduates become some of the highest earners in the country, then 39% of the second rate college graduates become some of the highest earners in the country.
Last edited by YorktownGal; 01-06-2024 at 10:52 AM..
Add in grade inflation in high schools is off the charts. The SAT's used to be a reality check on grade inflation..
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal
High schools grades are inflated.
My point isn’t whether they are inflated relative to any specific school (or not); it’s that it does not affect a student in terms of acceptance into an elite college. They assess a student’s grades/GPA in context (by way of the school profile).
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal
No, of course - not 50% - but some Ivy League graduates will be failures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal
I define failure as in unemployable from one too many firing.
Too funny, and you think this number significant enough to track/mention relative to Ivy League graduates (or the thread) when 61% of such are earning the highest incomes in the country.
Obviously, if you know of an Ivy League graduate (or several, lol) who can’t hold down a job, there are other issues at play. Logically-speaking, it’s certainly not relative to their education; that you appear to be making it about such is ludicrous. Education is ultimately the key to success, no matter how you may personally define such.
I define failure as in unemployable from one too many firing.
The great thing about statistical information is it goes both ways. If 61% of Ivy League graduates become some of the highest earners in the country, then 39% of the second rate college graduates become some of the highest earners in the country.
Well, considering that 75% of Yale students score above 33 and above 34 at Harvard on the ACT, I would expect most of the grades to be an A. If you fill a school with A students, you should expect to get A grades.
Too funny, and you think this number significant enough to track/mention relative to Ivy League graduates (or the thread) when 61% of such are earning the highest incomes in the country.
Obviously, if you know of an Ivy League graduate (or several, lol) who can’t hold down a job, there are other issues at play. Logically-speaking, it’s certainly not relative to their education; that you appear to be making it about such is ludicrous. Education is ultimately the key to success, no matter how you may personally define such.
Just realize the author is an expert on parenting - not colleges.
The author is discussing how soft skills affect the college experience - ie how to raise children.
She saying that "who you are as a person, your work ethic, and your support system is more important than the college you choose" - all focused on parenting.
She isn't taking about colleges as much as she is selling her own services.
A good college is better than a bad college because you'll work harder and have better professors. A pricy private college isn't necessarily better than a good public school. An Ivy League education does not promise success. It's all common sense.
Colleges can increase your connections for your internships and your first job. After that, you success depends on your work ethic.
Honestly, if a person is so hung up on their Ivy League education past the age of thirty, there are other issues at play. Once a person marries, becomes a parent, establishes a career, their alumna is just something in the past. Even with my husband's friends who attend a yearly reunion, they have "real" lives which are far more important. We don't socialize with people based on their education, but based on their values and interests.
If people's identity in retirement is based on their college alumna - those are the people to avoid as they never grew up.
My point still stands: "The great thing about statistical information is it goes both ways. If 61% of Ivy League graduates become some of the highest earners in the country, then 39% of the second rate college graduates become some of the highest earners in the country."
Last edited by YorktownGal; 01-06-2024 at 10:53 AM..
Well, considering that 75% of Yale students score above 33 and above 34 at Harvard on the ACT, I would expect most of the grades to be an A. If you fill a school with A students, you should expect to get A grades.
Is Yale's and Harvard's workload equivalent to a present day high school? In my 1970's college days, there was a significant jump between high school and college work. College courses used much higher reasoning skills. Therefore, an "A" high school student did not necessarily make the leap to an "A" college student.
Before grade inflation, Ivy League colleges had a "gentlemen's C grade." It was common and more acceptable in the 1970's. Evidently, it's nonexistent now.
My feeling (or hope) is the STEM averages are more true to life than the humanities majors.
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