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Sounds like you want a practical car that also happens to be fun to drive.
Right. The very essence of the hot hatch category that has now broadly expanded to include any performance compact (so, includes sedans such as WRX or Elantra N). But what I'm also discovering is that interior quality is among one of the most important things to me. Which, I guess, makes sense - entering my fifth decade I'm a lot less tolerant of annoyances I could live with in my 20s and the interior is where I spend my time.
I appreciate your listing out the models, but believe me I know all of them (as well as all the ones the U.S. doesn't get, sigh). I was mainly looking for discussion and personal experiences and what TheProtege has written about the Mazda3, for example, is giving me great pause, as I was seriously considering the Turbo Carbon Edition (potentially g-d awful - I've yet to see one "in the flesh", so to speak - gold color notwithstanding). But, just for fun, let's run through the list.
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Civic Si
I'd have considered one despite the visually underwhelming power numbers, had it come in the same blue color as the Touring hatch. As it is, there's not a single compelling color in the palette, but maybe that changes next year. You're also ignoring the Type R, which does come in that awesome blue, but costs way more than I'd ever consider paying for a non-premium brand.
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Elantra N-Line
Forte GT-Line
Neither one are performance cars. An Elantra N would fit the bill and I'm seriously considering it. Waiting for pricing to come out on the 2024s. On the used side, a Veloster N would work, but they seem to hold their values well (or dealers seem to think they do).
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Golf GTI
That's what I have. You also forgot the R, the issue with which is similar to that with the Type R.
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Jetta GLI
Same car as mine, minus the hatch and some suspension bits. No reason to go from one VW to another.
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Miata
Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86
The lack of practicality dooms these in my mind.
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Subaru WRX
If I didn't buy it back when I bought the GTI instead of it, I am not going to buy one now. If Subaru finally sees the light and deigns to turbocharge the Crosstrek, I'll be the first in line, but until that time...alas.
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Toyota Corolla GR
Zero faults with it except, once again, the color. Which, if I'm spending upwards of 40 grand, is pretty important.
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Mazda3
Covered this one above.
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Don’t forget Hyundai also has a Kona N which is only slightly less capable of the Elantra N while providing more cargo capacity and easier to get in and out.
It's an SUV, so that's a hard pass. Plus, I wouldn't want a 2023 when 2024 is around the corner and the 2024 base Kona is not easy to look at.
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Mustang <...> Challenger
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Originally Posted by highlanderfil
Three things I will absolutely, 100% not consider are an EV, an SUV or an American brand. Full stop, not even up for discussion.
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Nissan Z
Not a single new one below $52K in my neck of the woods.
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Infiniti Q50/Q60
The only car of that size I'd consider is the G70.
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Acura Integra and TLX
The Integra is interesting. The Type A is basically a Civic Si (with equally crap colors) for grown-ups, but getting it with a stick requires one to step up all the way to the most expensive trim and at that price I'd rather have the GRC (AWD and an extra 100 HP). The Type S starts over $50K, so that's an immediate nonstarter.
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Lexus IS & RC
A lightly used IS might be something I could convince myself of. But the cheapest one with reasonable miles is pushing $30K and that's a 250 where I'd want a 350 F-Sport.
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BMW
I am convinced that a 5-year 2-series is exactly what I want. Market realities being what they are, I'm unlikely to ever find one with the right mileage/condition/color/price combination.
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MB
I spent a bit of time looking at used AMG A35s yesterday. It remains an option, but maintenance is going to be painful.
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Audi
The only Audi I'd consider is an RS3 (otherwise why overpay for what is essentially a VW?) and that's way, way above my price range.
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Corvette and Nissan GTR are above those. Of course there’s also the Porsche 911, Boxster, and Cayman.
Yeah, we're just listing off car names at this point. None of these are remotely relevant to the task at hand.
Last edited by highlanderfil; 12-05-2023 at 08:52 AM..
I think you are making a huge mistake by limiting the field by not wanting an American made vehicle.
I think that I've driven enough American vehicles to know that I am not. Also, I'm not against an American-made vehicle. I just don't want one from an American brand.
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The Corvette is one of the best fun cars in the world to own.
I don't doubt that for a second and if I was in the market for a mid-engined car in the $70K range, I would give the C8 a close look. I won't touch an older model with a 10-foot pole.
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From a C5 right up to the c8, you couldn't go wrong with any of those years.
It's possible that you couldn't. Corvette's interiors all the way up to C8, when they finally joined the 21st century, are, IMO, awful.
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As for the Miata, since the day they entered the market, I have always felt they looked like a sissy car, built and styled for the females of the world. They(including the newest ones) still have that femininity look about them.
Luckily, my masculinity isn't threatened by being associated with a car of any kind. My hesitations re Miata are of a completely different nature.
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Oh, and the corvettes mentioned, all have fairly decent storage space.
No, they don't.
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Buying my corvette was one of the smartest things I have done.
I have owned my vette for 9 years, and have never regretted one minute of it.
Though shouldn't be too worried about that in your fun car selection.
Need to take 4 people somewhere? Oh no, someone else will have to drive.
Someone needs help moving? Oh no, but I can bring the beer.
Great thing with club spec Miata is they're so beat you don't even care. My S2000 isn't quite that bad. Getting a trunk rack would be a good move though... help cover up some of the scratches I've put on it from tying cargo down to the trunk
I'd have considered one despite the visually underwhelming power numbers, had it come in the same blue color as the Touring hatch. As it is, there's not a single compelling color in the palette, but maybe that changes next year. You're also ignoring the Type R, which does come in that awesome blue, but costs way more than I'd ever consider paying for a non-premium brand.
Honestly the regular Civic red looks really good in person although the "Boost Blue Pearl" is a great looking color. Type-R was out of my price range and the colors reminded me of another issue. None of the dealers from Honda or Mazda would entertain building a car and just waiting for it, so I was stuck with whatever inventory the dealer was getting and SI's were not on the priority list for Honda.
Neither one are performance cars. An Elantra N would fit the bill and I'm seriously considering it. Waiting for pricing to come out on the 2024s. On the used side, a Veloster N would work, but they seem to hold their values well (or dealers seem to think they do).
The Veloster N's were also on my list originally, but Carvana was the only place that had low mile newish N's near by. Not only did they want more then what they cost new but Carvana was going through a interesting time when I was looking. The Elentra N was a fine car it just seemed like more of a sports car for a family guy versus what I was looking. Forgot to mention it does have more power then expected.
That's what I have. You also forgot the R, the issue with which is similar to that with the Type R.
Same car as mine, minus the hatch and some suspension bits. No reason to go from one VW to another.
The lack of practicality dooms these in my mind.
If I didn't buy it back when I bought the GTI instead of it, I am not going to buy one now. If Subaru finally sees the light and deigns to turbocharge the Crosstrek, I'll be the first in line, but until that time...alas.
I'm waiting for Subaru to make a turbo Baja.
A lightly used IS might be something I could convince myself of. But the cheapest one with reasonable miles is pushing $30K and that's a 250 where I'd want a 350 F-Sport.
My next door neighbor has a 2022 IS-350 and his only complaints have been the leather seats (again leather seats in Texas no bueno) and the red color of them being too red. I will agree the red seats look like something a boy racer would put in vs my red Mazda seats that are more of a maroon color. The interior on them dose look nice and he drives the Jesus out of that thing (fun car for sure). To be honest with you I though the turbo Mazda 3 felt faster even though they have similar performance figures. It has been in the dealership at least a few times for repairs. He told me what was wrong with it one time, but I forgot.
Honestly the regular Civic red looks really good in person although the "Boost Blue Pearl" is a great looking color. Type-R was out of my price range and the colors reminded me of another issue. None of the dealers from Honda or Mazda would entertain building a car and just waiting for it, so I was stuck with whatever inventory the dealer was getting and SI's were not on the priority list for Honda.
Red is my least favorite color, so that's not an option. My wife has a maroon Fusion and that's plenty of that side of the spectrum for one household. Boost Blue, just like Ford's Grabber/Nitrous Blue, GCR's Blue Flame and the 2019-2020 GTI Rabbit/Autobahn's Cornflower Blue, is probably my favorite car color right now (partially because no non-premium OEM is brave enough to go with a flat green).
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The Veloster N's were also on my list originally, but Carvana was the only place that had low mile newish N's near by. Not only did they want more then what they cost new but Carvana was going through a interesting time when I was looking. The Elentra N was a fine car it just seemed like more of a sports car for a family guy versus what I was looking. Forgot to mention it does have more power then expected.
I had test-driven the Veloster when it first came out and I remember to have enjoyed it. But yeah, hard to find used examples of any performance cars that hadn't been modded, flogged within an inch of their lives or both.
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I'm waiting for Subaru to make a turbo Baja.
Both of us may be waiting a while, but at least in your case they've already done it before. Wouldn't hold my breath for a new one, though.
Fiesta ST is high on my list. You probably won’t lean into a Fiat 500 Abarth, which is on my list as well. In my case, I’m replacing a ‘97 Civic coupe which I really, really miss because it was PERFECTLY spec’d out, 100% stock and not abused, and was about as much fun as you could have with a $2500, 45+ mpg car, but a tree limb ended that car during a storm.
I’ve found you can do a lot more with little cars than you might think.
Given it was developed by Ford's German arm (with marketing input from yours truly), I'd consider it an exception to my "no American brands" rule. Problem is, I'd want a 2018 because of all the goodies (like LSD) that were made available for the final model year and those things still command a massive premium. It's not unusual to see them go for MSRP even today. (And the interior blows.)
Fiesta ST is high on my list. You probably won’t lean into a Fiat 500 Abarth, which is on my list as well. In my case, I’m replacing a ‘97 Civic coupe which I really, really miss because it was PERFECTLY spec’d out, 100% stock and not abused, and was about as much fun as you could have with a $2500, 45+ mpg car, but a tree limb ended that car during a storm.
I’ve found you can do a lot more with little cars than you might think.
That's actually kind of funny because I would consider an Abarth if I could find it in blue or yellow. I probably wouldn't keep it for longer than a year, though, because I'm pretty sure the novelty of the exhaust note and the go-kart physics would wear out quickly enough and the lack of creature comforts would take over. I spent a few minutes yesterday looking for one and it looks like the prices on them are actually reasonable, but I wasn't able to find a config I wanted.
The FiST is a hard no, but for reasons different than you might think. Apart from my would-be color of choice, Green Envy, being only available up to 2015 (the last year without CarPlay), the fact that I'd "owned" (company lease) the Euro-market next-gen car for six months in 2019 has completely destroyed my image of the only FiST we got on this side of the pond. I'd buy a Euro ST (either the big or the small one) in a heartbeat, but I already couldn't stomach the bigger US-market Focus (which, too, was a project of mine at Ford) - and I've owned/leased four of them in total between 2013 and 2021 - so the Fiesta is a complete no-go.
Given it was developed by Ford's German arm (with marketing input from yours truly), I'd consider it an exception to my "no American brands" rule. Problem is, I'd want a 2018 because of all the goodies (like LSD) that were made available for the final model year and those things still command a massive premium. It's not unusual to see them go for MSRP even today. (And the interior blows.)
I don’t know it’s msrp, but a 2017 11k miles just sold for $36k on bring a trailer. What about an S2000? Or wanting something newer? I have no clue when they quit making them…
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