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Auctions are exactly what is determining the trade-in and loan values.....so thats exactly the number you want to start with. Anything higher is profit. Thats what you should be negotiating.
To the OP: I know all the above is a hassle, but it can make a HUGE difference if you spend some serious time doing research, and then more doing the shopping.
I had a car totaled out from under me and had just a week or two to get a replacement.
I spend 3 16-hour days on the net deciding what specifically to get, and then another two to find out how much was a locally-common and fair profit for the dealer, (the ONLY variable I had in the entire purchase math, since I required all costs described up front to get a out-the-door price).
Look at the Internet forums for the car you chose. I found three that were specific to my Manu, that has sections for the car I wanted. Within those I found the current wholesale (itemized), and even some local out-the-door sales. I also found out about Trunk Money (aka Dealer Incentives).
Keep in mind, the Sticker is the wholesale, and is fiction set by the Manufacturer.
You can get the wholesale cost (of base car plus for each option/package), from several of the car buying sites. It's a good number to use as a starting point.
Get from the dealer ALL the other costs, and stand firm only paying the reasonable extras. Tag & Title is OK (if you want to avoid the DMV lines), Transportation is OK, car mats NOPE, fuel topping NOPE, extra paperwork NOPE etc.
I got all the above for several sales for almost the exact selection of options for 'my car', subtracted from the wholesale the extras and was left with the dealer profit. A popular car selling well might get $1,200 or more profit, an expensive luxury car not selling as well might actually go for $300-500.
When you do contact the dealers, go to the national site to get the websites for everyone around you, go to those websites and look for Internet Sales. If you can't find that, then just use Sales emails. Do like they suggested above and state the exact car and options and ask for the OtD price. Don't be discouraged if most don't reply. I contacted every dealer in my state, and every one in all the surrounding states (almost 30). Only 3 replied, 1 ended up selling me a car.
Bottom line? I spent about 50 hours on the net, and ended up saving at least $2,600 (2600/50 = 52 $/hr, a pretty good return for my research time, eh?)
Best source for finding actual prices paid is still eBay, doing a search for completed listings as someone else mentioned. Other tools to use are available to make sure you are in the right ballpark, but will not easily determine actual prices paid.
Personally, with most of my adult life in retail or fleet auto industry, I have a few personal guidelines. First of all, NADA and KBB are tools for the dealers and are operated as such, building in profit. Best online guide with most accurate pricing, in my opinion, is Edmunds. Their value estimator is generally pretty accurate. My own rule of thumb is to get the private party retail value in average condition, then pick my percentage of that number I am willing to pay. Prices may vary regionally, so use pricing guides for your geographic area, but for the best deals consider being willing to buy nationally.
You can drive yourself crazy trying to save the last dollar, or manage the process to get a good deal without sacrificing your sanity. Learn the market for the vehicle you want, search for where that vehicle is available at the best price, and have financing options available from your own source to force a dealer to match or beat. You can save thousands and it can actually be fun if you choose to look at it that way.
Need to buy a car soon (a used one) and one of the tips I've found online is to know what the car I'm interested in buying has sold for in my area. However, when I go on Nada, Edmunds, KBB or any of the other sites, it has listings for cars that are currently for sale, but (and maybe I'm missing something) they don't seem to show the listing page (which would include the selling price) for cars that have sold. If you don't find this information on those sites, where exactly can it be found?
First, how much do you really know about cars? Because, when buying a USED car, remember it's a USED car. So how used a car are you willing to buy? Obviously, you are on a budget and want the cheapest one possible. But what kind of car are you looking at? How old a car are you willing to buy? And what about the mileage? Are you mechanically inclined or do you have a good trusted mechanic?
And I do think that researching on NADA, Edmunds and KBB would be useful for you. Basically, if you are looking to buy at a dealership, then you'd want to pay as close to a private party sale value as possible.
But... no used car is the same. You really can't compare the prices of seemingly identical cars (make, trim, mileage)... with a used car, there will be variations in price on the colour as some colours are more desirable than others. And then you must test drive the cars too, as every used car handles and feels differently based on the previous owners' driving habits. Plus factor in the condition of the body and interior.
In my household, we do best with private party purchases and never go near any dealerships. We also pay in cash. But for financing, credit unions have very reasonable finance rates.
Anyway, there is no fixed value or selling price on any used item. With cars, if you really like a particular car, then to begin with, it's going to be worth more to you than to me.
For instance, I would never own or drive an automatic transmission car, therefore nothing in the world is going to get me to pay anything for one. But... let's say that I was shopping for another Civic Si hatchback, then I would search for all available used Civic Si's in my area, check them out and test drive them and buy the one that in the best condition and ideally in white. I would pay stronger for the most appealing one to me and offer less for one that was less appealing.
And with a used car, other factors in value would be if I could see records of maintenances and repairs. Also, look out for bodywork. Even if the car had a clean CarFax, I would be turned off by seeing paint covering up a minor scrape.
Also, if you end up at a dealership or used car lot, search for reviews and make sure that those businesses have a good reputation selling used cars. Used cars come from trade-ins and auto auctions. Many dealerships, just detail the cars and give them a quick lookover before pricing them and putting them out on a lot. So it is still like buying a pig in a poke. And why I prefer buying private party.
But with any used car there are too many variables. So prices vary dramatically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rynldsbr
Best source for finding actual prices paid is still eBay, doing a search for completed listings as someone else mentioned. Other tools to use are available to make sure you are in the right ballpark, but will not easily determine actual prices paid.
Personally, with most of my adult life in retail or fleet auto industry, I have a few personal guidelines. First of all, NADA and KBB are tools for the dealers and are operated as such, building in profit. Best online guide with most accurate pricing, in my opinion, is Edmunds. Their value estimator is generally pretty accurate. My own rule of thumb is to get the private party retail value in average condition, then pick my percentage of that number I am willing to pay. Prices may vary regionally, so use pricing guides for your geographic area, but for the best deals consider being willing to buy nationally.
You can drive yourself crazy trying to save the last dollar, or manage the process to get a good deal without sacrificing your sanity. Learn the market for the vehicle you want, search for where that vehicle is available at the best price, and have financing options available from your own source to force a dealer to match or beat. You can save thousands and it can actually be fun if you choose to look at it that way.
Another one for ebay. completed listings. I have always used that. That's what actual buyers are paying for cars, not dealers. Those are cash prices out the door. They will vary a little by location and other details of the vehicle (mileage, options, condition, etc..) but its a great way to get an idea. The only other real difference (I have noticed, maybe I have been duped), is figure you are going to pay a little more for the exact same vehicle being local (cost of business, convenience, that you kind of have to factor in, but not much). If you have an exact vehicle you are looking for, I would take a printout of the completed listings, along with KBB in with you to help negotiate.
Maybe I'm just reading outdated information, but so many places said the same thing. Would've been really helpful knowing how much these cars sold for, but I guess I'm kind of up the creek on this one. I'm thankful for the financing tip and for the heads up on the Edmunds forums, so I guess I'll just run with that for now. Appreciate the help, guys. Thank you.
If it's a new car, search car forums. Often times there is a thread asking for "what did you pay". I know that there are Honda and VW forums with those threads.
The way I would do it is to do an autotrader or cargurus search for a specific model but expand the search radius to something like 200 miles. And then look at the lowest 25 listings with the assumption that at least some dealers are no haggle and have good prices posted on their websites. This won't work for a unique car but should work for a camry.
Thanks again for the input, everyone. I really do appreciate all the help.
Since my last post, I found a car that I'm very interested in. 2015 fully loaded Camry XLE with 14,000 miles for $20,999. So this is what happened. Went to a local dealership based on a family recommendation and found out that the salesman was a friend of mine - actually, more so a friend of a family member of mine and I basically knew him that way. I go in and he mentions a few things. He mentions window/sticker price and "internet price." Price on the window (the sticker on the car window, I mean) was about $24,000? Price listed on the internet (for everyone to see, not just employees) was $21,000. That internet price he wouldn't budge from. He said that their cost was $700 less than that (so they bought the car for $20,300) and they make their money off of selling add-ons. Which brings me to my next point.
He offered me (to which I agreed) some $2,000 coverage (forgot what it was called - certification something or other) that had a "7-Year/100,000-Mile Powertrain Limited Warranty" and some other 1-Year Warranty and he dropped the price of that to $1,000. Wasn't sure if I should or shouldn't but he showed me the difference in monthly payments between having it and not and it was only an $8 difference. So, before the interest rate dropped, it was $350 a month without the certification vs $358 with it. Figured what the hell. Just take it. It's only an extra $8 bucks a month. Wrong move?
Now on to the interest. Went there before getting in contact with my bank (in fact, my friend guaranteed me that my bank would not beat their offer) and the first thing that was offered to me was about 5-6%, because my credit wasn't good. 640, I think? So after some time, they contacted a few banks and it went down to 4.7, then 4.5, then after having left the dealership, the friend calls back and says they got me down to 3.9% and a monthly payment of $269, I think it was? This is with a $7,000 down payment, mind you. I told him I'd consult with my bank and he said that it would affect my score, so I'm not sure at this point if I should or shouldn't and how much less they can possibly give me. He mentioned this place called Springleaf, that he said would more than likely give me a lower interest rate than his dealership gave me, but I'd have to get in touch with them a few weeks after the purchase. Not sure what the deal is with them, but that's what he told me.
So what do you guys think? Price-wise, about the certification (is it worth it?), about the monthly payment (too high considering the down payment or normal)? Anything sound off to you guys? Or is this a good deal, considering my credit score? Any insight you care to share and all opinions and comments are welcome.
Thanks.
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