Juniper Woods Ranch Ashfork AZ (Kingman, Cottonwood: rental, assessor, mobile home)

[A.G.E.]

I am interested in purchasing property in Juniper Woods Ranch and wondering about hunting on your own land or possibly in the immediate area. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[crazyjae]

Originally Posted by fengxg

The 250% tariff is not true. It is "up to 250%". I don't know what this number comes from. This punitive tariff is only posed to several largest solar panel companies in China, and the punitive tariff ranges from 15% to 31%. I don't think this tariff will influence the market price of solar panel significantly. In the long run the price of solar panel and storage battery will go down as technology advances.

Chinese Solar Panel Makers Face Punitive Tariffs - Forbes

That number came to me from the manager of Sun Electronics in Phoenix when I went with a friend to buy his solar panels two weeks ago. The company imports panels from China and elsewhere in big quantities (one of the largest in the Country). He warned us that prices on Chinese panels would be going up in the very near future as his company had just been hit with a $750,000 bill from Customs for their last shipment. He said that reflected 250% of the purchase price. Will it increase panel prices across the board? That remains to be seen. There are plenty of manufacturers out there in other countries that are exporting for less than American made units. So maybe, maybe not.

The only way battery prices will come down for solar applications is if a new technology comes up that can compete with lead acid batteries for durability, reliability, depth of discharge and life span. Prices for batteries that are good for off-grid applications have been going up and will continue to do so as long as lead prices keep going up. Right now there really is no good technology that can compete with lead acid batteries.

[crazyjae]

Originally Posted by A.G.E.

I am interested in purchasing property in Juniper Woods Ranch and wondering about hunting on your own land or possibly in the immediate area. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

There is a lot of hunting around Juniper Woods Ranch. It's backed up to National Forest . We have elk and deer. And as long as you have permits and license you will be fine. With the number of houses in the ranch, I'd probably say you wouldn't find your land as hunt-able as you want. There are over 850 residences in the part of the ranch that is accessible by Bullock Road. And that was a 2010 count. Hunt anywhere in the ranch (except some hard to reach roads like Rattlesnake) and you will likely be shooting in the direction of an occupied dwelling. But again, we are surrounded by forest lands that are OK to hunt.

I see the Game and Fish guy patrolling around out here often so I wouldn't suggest trying to hunt without permits and license. We've had enough poaching in this area that Game and Fish is watching out here actively. The latest was an antelope about two weeks ago out by Steel or Steel Dam. There are reward flyers put up by AZDGF everywhere in town.

[fengxg]

Originally Posted by crazyjae

That number came to me from the manager of Sun Electronics in Phoenix when I went with a friend to buy his solar panels two weeks ago. The company imports panels from China and elsewhere in big quantities (one of the largest in the Country). He warned us that prices on Chinese panels would be going up in the very near future as his company had just been hit with a $750,000 bill from Customs for their last shipment. He said that reflected 250% of the purchase price. Will it increase panel prices across the board? That remains to be seen. There are plenty of manufacturers out there in other countries that are exporting for less than American made units. So maybe, maybe not.

The only way battery prices will come down for solar applications is if a new technology comes up that can compete with lead acid batteries for durability, reliability, depth of discharge and life span. Prices for batteries that are good for off-grid applications have been going up and will continue to do so as long as lead prices keep going up. Right now there really is no good technology that can compete with lead acid batteries.

The panel price has been down significantly. The price per watt in China is less than $1. The lithum-ion battery is about $250 per kWh.

[Gandalara]

Originally Posted by fengxg

The 250% tariff is not true. It is "up to 250%". I don't know what this number comes from. This punitive tariff is only posed to several largest solar panel companies in China, and the punitive tariff ranges from 15% to 31%. I don't think this tariff will influence the market price of solar panel significantly. In the long run the price of solar panel and storage battery will go down as technology advances.

Chinese Solar Panel Makers Face Punitive Tariffs - Forbes

Originally Posted by crazyjae

That number came to me from the manager of Sun Electronics in Phoenix when I went with a friend to buy his solar panels two weeks ago. The company imports panels from China and elsewhere in big quantities (one of the largest in the Country). He warned us that prices on Chinese panels would be going up in the very near future as his company had just been hit with a $750,000 bill from Customs for their last shipment. He said that reflected 250% of the purchase price.

Then he needs to buy from another Chinese company, if he's going to buy from China.

From Bloomberg: "Suntech was told to pay 31.22 percent, Trina’s levies were set at 31.14 percent and 59 other Chinese companies were told to pay duties of 31.18 percent. All other Chinese producers received a rate of 249.96 percent"

[crazyjae]

Originally Posted by fengxg

The panel price has been down significantly. The price per watt in China is less than $1. The lithum-ion battery is about $250 per kWh.

The problem with Li-Ion is that there are no real current residential products on the market. There are people experimenting with them, but, there's no off-shelf commercial solution that is readily available just yet.

I've contacted people like Aquion, who put out press releases and brochures that talk about the great residential application Li-Ion batteries present, but when faced with the question if they have anything for sale on the market now, it's always no, and that it's currently under development. And when asked when they plan to field any of the products, they have no date set. In fact, my last discussion with Aquion, one company putting out a lot of marketing literature for Li-Ion residential batteries, was in January.

Besides the lack of availability of product, Li-Ion has other challenges that make them a bit more difficult to use in an off-grid application. The need to keep the battery in a specific temperature range is one difficulty. Particularly when faced with the fact that at lower temperatures the battery needs to be charged at a lower rate - the C/10 rate - or it will catch fire and explode. Keeping the heat regulated in the power house is a novel idea, many just don't chose to or can't do it.

And there is also the fact that they require regulated charging that even the most current off-grid equipment doesn't yet support. I'm not saying something like the Midnight Solar charge controllers cant be used, but, I'd personally be very cautious and would keep a very close watch on everything, every day. As we all learned by the fire in the Boeing 787's last summer, a Li-Ion battery will catch fire if not charged properly and within a very tight tolerance.

Right now the most solid, reliable system still employed in the industry is lead acid batteries. I've personally seen forklift batteries power off-grid systems for more than 20-years. I know someone that currently has 25-years on a forklift battery and it's still in very good shape. Lead acid forklift batteries currently run around $135 per kWh/ or around $3.27 per aH delivered to your site. The advantages of LA batteries include the fact that they don't require protection circuitry and are thermally stable. The cons are they require regular maintenance, they are heavy and they don't have the same lifespan (although looking at the lifespan I've personally seen on forklift batteries, I don't actually consider that an issue).

Living off-grid, I'd much rather my power supply be reliable. Li-Ion doesn't yet promise that at the scale I need it.

[crazyjae]

Originally Posted by Gandalara

Then he needs to buy from another Chinese company, if he's going to buy from China.

From Bloomberg: "Suntech was told to pay 31.22 percent, Trina’s levies were set at 31.14 percent and 59 other Chinese companies were told to pay duties of 31.18 percent. All other Chinese producers received a rate of 249.96 percent"

I don't know if I would. With prices from other countries still competitive in that sub $1 per watt range, I would personally avoid the tariffs and buy from elsewhere. Less paperwork, less headache and a quick turn to market. Particularly since China also imposed a tariff of up to 57% on the importation of polysilicon. It seems like the trade in solar between the two countries is going to be an economic struggle, at best. China Upholds Tariffs on Raw Material for Solar Panels From U.S, South Korea - WSJ.com

As long as the others don't raise the prices based on the fact that the tariffs have been implemented, I imagine that there will not be a large increase in prices. There are still panels from other places in Asia as well as Germany, Canada and Mexico that are under $1 a watt.

[fengxg]

Originally Posted by crazyjae

The problem with Li-Ion is that there are no real current residential products on the market. There are people experimenting with them, but, there's no off-shelf commercial solution that is readily available just yet.

I've contacted people like Aquion, who put out press releases and brochures that talk about the great residential application Li-Ion batteries present, but when faced with the question if they have anything for sale on the market now, it's always no, and that it's currently under development. And when asked when they plan to field any of the products, they have no date set. In fact, my last discussion with Aquion, one company putting out a lot of marketing literature for Li-Ion residential batteries, was in January.

Besides the lack of availability of product, Li-Ion has other challenges that make them a bit more difficult to use in an off-grid application. The need to keep the battery in a specific temperature range is one difficulty. Particularly when faced with the fact that at lower temperatures the battery needs to be charged at a lower rate - the C/10 rate - or it will catch fire and explode. Keeping the heat regulated in the power house is a novel idea, many just don't chose to or can't do it.

Living off-grid, I'd much rather my power supply be reliable. Li-Ion doesn't yet promise that at the scale I need it.

That's very informative. I didn't know that. If the battery only need to stay warm when charging, then the problem is less serious. In Ash fork during the daytime it is not very often that the temperature drops to low, and even in the coldest winter days, it is not very difficult to build a warm house to make the battery warm.

If lead-acid battery is not an issue and the cost is lower, I think it makes sense to use just lead-acid battery.

[Ringdocus]

Congratulations on your transition to the alternate life style.


My wife & I along with our son and his wife are in escrow for 40+ acres in JWR. We plan to use it as a "primitive" campsite & "get-way" location. What is your experience with theft and vandalism and specifically what measures do you recommend?

Further, Will a steel container [20'] with high security padlock covered by hollow steel rectangular tubing be the best way to secure our camping gear?

[casshu]

Hey there Ringdocus. A steel building is a great idea to put your stuff in, but according to building codes, you must first have an approved septic system in place. Sound crazy? That's the code. And then when you put a structure on your property, it needs to meet the building codes.Everything requires a permit. Visit yavapaicounty.gov for details.