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You can be held on Remand in Police Cells until you appear before Magistrates Court where bail conditions are not met, the Magistrates being the equivalent of Local Courts in the US, whilst the Crown Court is more akin to the State or Federal Criminal Courts.
All Criminal Cases in England & Wales start at the Magistrates Court who determine how serious the case is, the most serious cases (around 10%) will be transferred to the Crown Court, and it is then that an individual is usually Remanded in to the Custody of the Prison Service to await Crown Court Trial, which may take many months.
A lot of UK Police Forces now have state of the Art Large Custody Suites and that that dissimilar to a system of local jails.
Yes, it is sad that we're becoming more like the American system
That's exactly my point. Has he even checked the statistics for Texas? It has more gun deaths than the whole of California and it has 10 million LESS PEOPLE!
Does that figure include suicides?
Wikipedia says that California had 1257 gun murders in 2010, while Texas had 805. The gun murder rate for California is 3.4 per 100,000, while the rate in Texas was 3.2.
California has very strict gun control laws, an "assault weapon" ban, magazine capacity limits, a waiting period and a limit of the number of guns a person can buy every month. Texas has none of those, yet has a slightly lower gun murder rate.
You can be held on Remand in Police Cells until you appear before Magistrates Court where bail conditions are not met, the Magistrates being the equivalent of Local Courts in the US, whilst the Crown Court is more akin to the State or Federal Criminal Courts.
All Criminal Cases in England & Wales start at the Magistrates Court who determine how serious the case is, the most serious cases (around 10%) will be transferred to the Crown Court, and it is then that an individual is usually Remanded in to the Custody of the Prison Service to await Crown Court Trial, which may take many months.
A lot of UK Police Forces now have state of the Art Large Custody Suites and that that dissimilar to a system of local jails and they have trained medical staff to deal with mental and physical problems.
It sounds relatively similar to the American system - including the trained medical staff - other than the fact that people who serve sentences of a year or less typically serve them in city/county jails. It doesn't sound like that happens in the UK police stations.
Last edited by DerpyDerp; 08-10-2016 at 11:25 AM..
Yes, it is sad that we're becoming more like the American system
I just watched the video and chuckled when it announced that it has 60 cells. My county prison has 3,563 beds; the largest prison in the UK holds 1,877 prisoners. The largest American jail holds 9,000 prisoners.
It sounds relatively similar to the American system - including the trained medical staff - other than the fact that people who serve sentences of a year or less typically serve them in city/county jails. It doesn't sound like that happens in the UK police stations.
If you include all the deaths in custody in prisons and police custody in the entire UK it will add to a figure of about 150 per year
In the US in Local and State facilities the last available figures show 4,309 and this doesn't include Federal Facilities.
I am not sure what your point is, as with around rouughly 1/5th of the population of the US, we clearly have a far lower rate of deaths in Custody and I should imagine a very low rate by international standards. Whilst in terms of other deaths including shooting the UK Police have one of the lowest levels anywhere.
In the US in Local and State facilities the last available figures show 4,309 and this doesn't include Federal Facilities.
For the record, there are about 211,000 inmates being held in federal prisons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
I am not sure what your point is, as with around rouughly 1/5th of the population of the US, we clearly have a far lower rate of deaths in Custody
Let's do the math:
UK
257 deaths out of 85,000 inmates = 1 death for every 330 inmates
USA
4,309 deaths out of 1,997,000 (non-federal) inmates = 1 death for every 463 inmates
You have a smaller number of deaths in custody, due to a smaller inmate population, but the rate of death for inmates in the UK is 40% higher than in the United States.
There are many differences between our systems, the most glaring being our huge inmate population. We incarcerate people at a rate 5x greater than does the UK. Why? Partially because we have a big problem with gangs and street crime, but mainly it comes down to the fact that American taxpayers don't want bad guys walking around on the streets. They'll gladly fund prison construction if it means that violent and habitual offenders are in prison where they belong. Mandatory sentencing, "3 strikes" laws and life without parole for violent criminals are strongly supported by American citizens.
Some people like to point at the so-called "war on drugs" for our burgeoning prison population, but the truth is that only about 1/6 of our 2.2 million inmates are behind bars for drug offenses. More than half of our inmates are locked up for violent crimes (murder, rape, robbery assault, etc.) and the rest are mostly thieves and burglars.
For the record, there are about 211,000 inmates being held in federal prisons.
Let's do the math:
UK
257 deaths out of 85,000 inmates = 1 death for every 330 inmates
USA
4,309 deaths out of 1,997,000 (non-federal) inmates = 1 death for every 463 inmates
You have a smaller number of deaths in custody, due to a smaller inmate population, but the rate of death for inmates in the UK is 40% higher than in the United States.
There are many differences between our systems, the most glaring being our huge inmate population. We incarcerate people at a rate 5x greater than does the UK. Why? Partially because we have a big problem with gangs and street crime, but mainly it comes down to the fact that American taxpayers don't want bad guys walking around on the streets. They'll gladly fund prison construction if it means that violent and habitual offenders are in prison where they belong. Mandatory sentencing, "3 strikes" laws and life without parole for violent criminals are strongly supported by American citizens.
Some people like to point at the so-called "war on drugs" for our burgeoning prison population, but the truth is that only about 1/6 of our 2.2 million inmates are behind bars for drug offenses. More than half of our inmates are locked up for violent crimes (murder, rape, robbery assault, etc.) and the rest are mostly thieves and burglars.
To keep this somewhat on topic, the breakdown of America's prison population is:
Firstly the US Figure does not include Federal Prisons only state and local prisons, secondly according to the article of the 257 prisoners who died, natural causes accounted for 146 deaths. Thirdly the Figures given by the Ministry of Justice state at the bottom of the figures that they include Immigration Centres and not just prisons, with over 30,000 people detained in Immigration Centres every year.
There is not much than can be done in relation to people dying of natural causes, suicide perhaps and other deaths yes, but heart attacks and disease effect all areas of society including the prison population.
It is however difficult to find reliable up to date figures in relation to custody deaths or police shooting etc in the US unlike the UK and the US is responsible for 20% of the worlds population, not something to be proud of.
Your argument is therefore a pointless one as the UK has a far lower prison population per capita iun the first place and less people die in custody in the UK as a percentage of population than in the US despite you trying to skew the figures in relation to a percentage of the prison population despite discrepancies related to Federal Prisons and Immigartion Centres.
The truth being the US Police shoot more people than other countries, which is what the thread was initially about.
Last edited by Brave New World; 08-11-2016 at 01:08 PM..
Firstly the US Figure does not include Federal Prisons only state and local prisons, secondly according to the article of the 257 prisoners who died, natural causes accounted for 146 deaths.
1) I clearly noted that the figures didn't include federal prisoners, which account for only 10% of our inmate population, but I will address that later.
2) As I've said before, your frequently referenced figure of 4,309 deaths in American jails/prisons also includes natural deaths, so the comparison is valid.
I was just looking at that same page. The data only goes back to 2008, but doing the math shows that the rate of deaths in custody in federal prisons was steadily in the range of about 1 in every 450 inmates, which mirrors the rate in non-federal prisons and jails. It shows that a prisoner in the UK is 40% more likely to die than prisoners in American jails/prisons and American federal prisons (as of the latest data in 2008).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
Your argument is therefore a pointless one as the UK has a far lower prison population per capita iun the first place and less people die in custody in the UK as a percentage of population than in the US.
My argument is exactly on point, as your statement was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
we clearly have a far lower rate of deaths in Custody
And I have shown that to be untrue, where in fact the death rate in custody in the UK is 40% higher than in American facilities.
1) I clearly noted that the figures didn't include federal prisoners, which account for only 10% of our inmate population, but I will address that later.
2) As I've said before, your frequently referenced figure of 4,309 deaths in American jails/prisons also includes natural deaths, so the comparison is valid.
The Figures provided by the Ministry of Justice state at the bottom of the figures that they include Immigration Centres and not just prisons, with over 30,000 people detained in Immigration Centres every year. This is on top of to the 87,000 prisoners.
My argument is exactly on point, as your statement was
Not really as you are far less likely to go to prison in the first place or be placed in custody in the first place in the UK. Whilst as previously pointed out the figures include Immigration Centres in the UK and not just prisons and not including Federal Prisons in the US means the statistics are skewed and not like for like, furthermore there are no up to date US Figures to compare to UK Figures.
Last edited by Brave New World; 08-11-2016 at 02:43 PM..
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