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Italian culture is more rigid and enmeshed than Anglo cultures. If you live in Italy, or as I have done, marry someone with Italian heritage, you have to accept it. Not that things never change, but the OPs boyfriend’s parents would both be very elderly and people in general are less adaptable as they age.
I cannot see any reason you would continue with this relationship.
Couple of points from my experience which you could keep in mind while living in Italy. Firstly, many Italians do not realise that people who are learning Italian cannot understand much at all of dialects. They can understand Italian and usually a fair bit of other dialects, so assume the Italian learners can too.
Secondly, talking about how health focused you are can imply a criticism of their diet, depending how you speak.
Italy has a very high life expectancy, despite or because of the diet you criticise here, it being a matter of controversy. My in-laws who drank sweet coffee and soft drinks routinely, lived to 88 and 95 respectively, though here in Australia. These dietary “sins” may well be moderated by sensible attitudes to alcohol, a high consumption of fruit and vegetables etc.
Couple of points from my experience which you could keep in mind while living in Italy. Firstly, many Italians do not realise that people who are learning Italian cannot understand much at all of dialects. They can understand Italian and usually a fair bit of other dialects, so assume the Italian learners can too.
I am not an expert on Italy but I read that local dialects are very important to many Italians who might not even speak a lot of modern Italian in their private life. I think the situation there is somewhat similar to Germany. Both countries were put together from other small states that had their own version of "Italian".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaAnna
Secondly, talking about how health focused you are can imply a criticism of their diet, depending how you speak.
Italy has a very high life expectancy, despite or because of the diet you criticise here, it being a matter of controversy. My in-laws who drank sweet coffee and soft drinks routinely, lived to 88 and 95 respectively, though here in Australia. These dietary “sins” may well be moderated by sensible attitudes to alcohol, a high consumption of fruit and vegetables etc.
These sins are probably also moderated by small portions and by being physically active and walking for hours every day. Also, the quality of food is excellent with no harmful additives that are used in the US diet. As to alcohol consumption, it is mostly wine which I think is the healthiest alcohol you can drink...
No, no money is involved. I am currently in the process of getting a permit. Bureaucracy is a long process in Italy. The Italian economy has been strucked hard since Covid. So, work life in Italy is slow right now.
So do you work in Italy and are you able to support yourself? Would be interesting to know what kind of job you do there...
I lived in Italy in the 1990s, but I left for other reasons, too complicated to spell out here, though the expression ‘the US is the least dirty shirt’ sums it up.
Do I feel that I wasted my time? If I knew then what I know now, then I would respond yes. But that experience contributed much to what I know now and I still have valuable memories, not joyful, but valuable and I still cling to aspects of that experience for the very reason that they bring me sweet sadness and a sort of nostalgic joy.
There is no shame in coming back to the US, especially if you remain independent emotionally, like my grandmothers, of blessed memory, and economically too.
I wish you well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRicantraveler
Okay, I don’t know how to start my side of the story, but here it goes…
I am an American female at the age of 30. I am well eduacated to the point where I am currently studying for my master’s online. And, I have experience from work life in my country: the good ol’ USA. Six years ago I made a life changing decision to start a new life in Italy.
During these past five years of living in Italy I had to make a lot of heart breaking decisions, all alone. My USA family is no longer in touch with me any more since high school. We don’t see each other eye-to-eye. I am not married and I do not have children (besides having a mini dog), nor do I plan to have any in this point in time. All of my decisions have been sacrificial to the point where I haven’t seen any opportunities or changes in my current situation living in Italy.
My relationship is no longer full of happiness, joy and love. Our ages have a thirty year age gap. He is Italian from the eternal city.
There have been many situations in our relationship during these past five years that have changed the way I think about my future living in Italy, and if where I am is truly a waste of my time.
(When I was younger I thought it would be so cool to live in a foreign country and learn a foreign language, sure, the fantasies were there, but now it just feels like there will never be any peace and happiness living here.)
Here is the story:
Yesterday afternoon was a family gathering/birthday lunch. My boyfriends father just turned 90 in April. His father wanted to have a family gathering that included his long time best friend who now has dementia. So, my boyfriend and I, we couldn’t cancel the last minute changes (Italians are notorious for doing this kind of thing here in Italy). In total we were 16 people at the table, instead of 18.
The entire family is Italian and only a few speak and understand English, like my fidanzato, his niece (a life long student, when she feels like showing off), and his brother in-law (a pharmacist). Most refuse to speak standard Italian and that’s exactly what I am studying and speaking; an American who is living in Italy. No dialect, please.
I am very respectful and always ready to speak in Italian, actually, I taught myself to speak and understand Italian. I just started studying Spanish about a week ago. Though til this day I am still studying and learning Italian. Learning a foreign language is a forever job.
Anyways, I had notice a lot of different personalities from everyone at the table and these personalities has not improved since the last time I saw these people, furthermore the attitudes and behaviors from everyone was just terrible. Usually I see his relatives at least once, rarely twice a year. I’d say once a year which is not much to account for, really.
One of the relatives was constantly blowing his nose at the table (it was gross and no one said anything about it) and his wife was speaking so loud in dialect, that I couldn’t talk and translate what I wanted to say into Italian. Then that same woman had the nerve to say some uneducated things to me along with her husband about the United States. I understand that my country is not doing so well in many areas of life… Non sono stupida. But what the heck! Italy is far worst than us when it comes to health! Their diet consists of pasta, pizza and potatoes for the rest of one’s lifespan, really. Most of them drink soda (coca-cola) and strong black coffee with sugar too. Do I disrepect them in person? No, I am modest. Pretty much dealing with bambini over here non-stop.
Any how. Whenever I speak in Italian about my opinion or about how I like to take really good care of myself (very proud of my achievements with my health and wellness), someone at the table has the nerve to say a snobby comment or he/she will treat me like I am an idiot.
This kind of situation has happened to me many times with them, but also with Italian strangers at Italian restaurants too.
My boyfriends best male friend was there with us and he too, was a total arsehole to me. Besides the girl best friend of my boyfriends best friend. Hope this makes a lot of sense. She was a kind and understanding grown lady. She comes from Peru, but has been living in Italy for a long time now. So, her speaking Italian throughout the years has not been an issue. Both languages are totally similar. She had studied Italian since she was a young girl.
For five years I have been putting in a lot of my efforts to be friendly and open to everyone in my boyfriends family circle, but all they do is turn their heads the other way, or they would say a rude comment about America. My boyfriend’s mother still doesn’t like me and now her and I don’t see each other eye-to-eye. He says that she has never met Americans but what the heck, five years has passed now.
Like, 6 years is near and they still treat me like an outsider. Everyone of them, including his parents. As if I am not aware of the real world around me, or as if I had never travelled the world. I am not ignorant.
Not once have I ever disrespected them in anyway or their country. Not once. And now I am at the breaking point where I just can’t take it any more.
Many times I have approach the situation to my boyfriend and he has told me that he feels sad about how I feel, but there is nothing that he can do to change it. I have to suck it up and live with their compliants and nasty attitudes. He talks to his parents on the phone everyday for hours and all I hear is compliants coming from them, too.
Plus, he likes to say that I am a perfectionist. Or, he would say that “If your country is so great, why don’t you go back to America for a while”. It’s these type of arguments that I do not like. We argue a lot. I have no respect for him any more. I don't even trust him with my own words.
Who wants to live in Italy with negativity and sadness everyday along with an Italian partner who’s family is not very welcoming to Americans? I would like to know.
This situation with his parents and his relatives seems like it will not likely to change any time soon as Italian culture is known for these kind of behaviors. Sadly, I found this out later rather than sooner.
However, I want to leave the relationship and move on. I don't deserve to be treated poorly by my boyfriend and his family. I am fed up of it.
I am officially ready to: gettare la spungna – to put up the white flag.
I need good, solid advice from experienced people who has probably went through the same/or similar situation as I am currently dealing with right now.
All advice will be heard because growth is more important than anger.
We argue a lot. I have no respect for him any more. I don't even trust him with my own words.
There's your answer. Your relationship is toast. Time to move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaAnna
Italian culture is more rigid and enmeshed than Anglo cultures. If you live in Italy, or as I have done, marry someone with Italian heritage, you have to accept it.
Nah. There's a big difference between living in Italy and marrying someone of Italian heritage. I'm Italian-American. My family doesn't act like the OP's boyfriend's. My parents were always polite and welcoming to the partners my sisters and I brought home. Unless, of course, one of those partners turned out to be a jerk. But any family would have problems with jerks, one would hope.
Okay, I don’t know how to start my side of the story, but here it goes…
I am an American female at the age of 30. I am well eduacated to the point where I am currently studying for my master’s online. And, I have experience from work life in my country: the good ol’ USA. Six years ago I made a life changing decision to start a new life in Italy.
During these past five years of living in Italy I had to make a lot of heart breaking decisions, all alone. My USA family is no longer in touch with me any more since high school. We don’t see each other eye-to-eye. I am not married and I do not have children (besides having a mini dog), nor do I plan to have any in this point in time. All of my decisions have been sacrificial to the point where I haven’t seen any opportunities or changes in my current situation living in Italy.
My relationship is no longer full of happiness, joy and love. Our ages have a thirty year age gap. He is Italian from the eternal city.
There have been many situations in our relationship during these past five years that have changed the way I think about my future living in Italy, and if where I am is truly a waste of my time.
(When I was younger I thought it would be so cool to live in a foreign country and learn a foreign language, sure, the fantasies were there, but now it just feels like there will never be any peace and happiness living here.)
Here is the story:
Yesterday afternoon was a family gathering/birthday lunch. My boyfriends father just turned 90 in April. His father wanted to have a family gathering that included his long time best friend who now has dementia. So, my boyfriend and I, we couldn’t cancel the last minute changes (Italians are notorious for doing this kind of thing here in Italy). In total we were 16 people at the table, instead of 18.
The entire family is Italian and only a few speak and understand English, like my fidanzato, his niece (a life long student, when she feels like showing off), and his brother in-law (a pharmacist). Most refuse to speak standard Italian and that’s exactly what I am studying and speaking; an American who is living in Italy. No dialect, please.
I am very respectful and always ready to speak in Italian, actually, I taught myself to speak and understand Italian. I just started studying Spanish about a week ago. Though til this day I am still studying and learning Italian. Learning a foreign language is a forever job.
Anyways, I had notice a lot of different personalities from everyone at the table and these personalities has not improved since the last time I saw these people, furthermore the attitudes and behaviors from everyone was just terrible. Usually I see his relatives at least once, rarely twice a year. I’d say once a year which is not much to account for, really.
One of the relatives was constantly blowing his nose at the table (it was gross and no one said anything about it) and his wife was speaking so loud in dialect, that I couldn’t talk and translate what I wanted to say into Italian. Then that same woman had the nerve to say some uneducated things to me along with her husband about the United States. I understand that my country is not doing so well in many areas of life… Non sono stupida. But what the heck! Italy is far worst than us when it comes to health! Their diet consists of pasta, pizza and potatoes for the rest of one’s lifespan, really. Most of them drink soda (coca-cola) and strong black coffee with sugar too. Do I disrepect them in person? No, I am modest. Pretty much dealing with bambini over here non-stop.
Any how. Whenever I speak in Italian about my opinion or about how I like to take really good care of myself (very proud of my achievements with my health and wellness), someone at the table has the nerve to say a snobby comment or he/she will treat me like I am an idiot.
This kind of situation has happened to me many times with them, but also with Italian strangers at Italian restaurants too.
My boyfriends best male friend was there with us and he too, was a total arsehole to me. Besides the girl best friend of my boyfriends best friend. Hope this makes a lot of sense. She was a kind and understanding grown lady. She comes from Peru, but has been living in Italy for a long time now. So, her speaking Italian throughout the years has not been an issue. Both languages are totally similar. She had studied Italian since she was a young girl.
For five years I have been putting in a lot of my efforts to be friendly and open to everyone in my boyfriends family circle, but all they do is turn their heads the other way, or they would say a rude comment about America. My boyfriend’s mother still doesn’t like me and now her and I don’t see each other eye-to-eye. He says that she has never met Americans but what the heck, five years has passed now.
Like, 6 years is near and they still treat me like an outsider. Everyone of them, including his parents. As if I am not aware of the real world around me, or as if I had never travelled the world. I am not ignorant.
Not once have I ever disrespected them in anyway or their country. Not once. And now I am at the breaking point where I just can’t take it any more.
Many times I have approach the situation to my boyfriend and he has told me that he feels sad about how I feel, but there is nothing that he can do to change it. I have to suck it up and live with their compliants and nasty attitudes. He talks to his parents on the phone everyday for hours and all I hear is compliants coming from them, too.
Plus, he likes to say that I am a perfectionist. Or, he would say that “If your country is so great, why don’t you go back to America for a while”. It’s these type of arguments that I do not like. We argue a lot. I have no respect for him any more. I don't even trust him with my own words.
Who wants to live in Italy with negativity and sadness everyday along with an Italian partner who’s family is not very welcoming to Americans? I would like to know.
This situation with his parents and his relatives seems like it will not likely to change any time soon as Italian culture is known for these kind of behaviors. Sadly, I found this out later rather than sooner.
However, I want to leave the relationship and move on. I don't deserve to be treated poorly by my boyfriend and his family. I am fed up of it.
I am officially ready to: gettare la spungna – to put up the white flag.
I need good, solid advice from experienced people who has probably went through the same/or similar situation as I am currently dealing with right now.
All advice will be heard because growth is more important than anger.
Thank you all for reading my journey.
Talk to you all soon. Buona giornata.
I think you have answered your own question here. You never articulated what your 60-year-old boyfriend or whatever he is brings to the table, to compensate for his much greater age. Is he physically good looking, great in bed, wealthy, stands to inherit wealth, exceptionally intelligent, or what? Mastering the obvious, in 20 years you will be in your 50s, and he will be in his 80s if he's still around. If you stay to that point, you will likely be a caregiver to him.
So I think staying with him long term is not good for you, unless he has some exceptional qualities you have not posted about.
The gross manners of his family are another reason to give him the boot!
You might well be able to stay in Italy and maybe find a more suitable guy.
Leave the boyfriend and stay in Italy to see if it improves the experience, or leave the boyfriend and go home or somewhere else.
You've tooted your horn about all your accomplishments, but now you seem to be stagnating. You cannot change your boyfriend's
family. Your boyfriend doesn't want to change, and why should he? It's all working out fine for him.
Consider that maybe you've become complacent, or you've started to become afraid of change, and it's easier for you to stay with your boyfriend and be dissatisfied, than to go home and regroup. One thing is certain, do nothing and nothing changes. Embrace the uncertain and at least you won't wake up with the same complaints in another five years.
E-Twist
I am actually calling for a reunion. To understand what's really going on. In this way, I can explain what I have been experiencing with my own eyes for this long of a time. I believe talking about this strangeness with everyone would shine some more light. Give me the answers that I've been searching for, instead of frustration and confusion.
Change is good, but it has to be handle in an adult way. Nowadays it is easier to leave someone with a text message, instead of just simply talking about it and investigating the real issue.
I just want to know from everyone here: has anyone ever lived many years in a foreign country?
It sounds like OP has someone she points fingers at for everything. It is them versus her. She is not responsible for anything.
An outsider living with a family member twice her age. Body language allowing to see behind the facade. It may be time to move on.
The "only rich Americans learn English" gave me a chuckle as well as the pepperings of Italian words through out. Five years living in the ccountry should have brought her to fluency.
Well, you can talk about the school system with the Italian government officials.
It is not about the language. People don't know how to communicate effectively anymore. That's the real issue. Instead of talking over people, it would be best to listen and then use the brain to speak.
You make it sound so easy to "grab a foreign language in thin air" then why don't you come over here and take my place.
Go into an Italian coffee shop or an Italian government building in Rome, and ask questions solely in Italian.
I don't think you'll ever survive it. Just saying
I am 75 years old. My parents were immigrants to America. I am a natural born USA citizen. I have done some traveling and am very aware that many people in other countries dislike America’s global politics and in turn, American citizens. I have seen some Americans behave very poorly when I have been in Europe. I understand the general distain for Americans “in theory.”
However, you are an individual who has been in a relationship with a family member for quite some time and you feel dislike from the group because you are an American. While I find it difficult to understand how a whole family cannot discern the difference from a “general dislike” and a singular individual, in reality you are uncomfortable and feel emotionally isolated.
I can relate to your interest in making a life in a foreign country. I had dreams of leaving my family’s location (New York/New Jersey) when I was in high school and finding a kinder, gentler part of the world where people seemed to live out family values. So I left the east coast and went to college in Iowa. Yes, still in the USA, but in many ways in 1967 a different world that represented values I sought. I married a local and suffered for 11 years before I threw in the towel and acknowledged, at age 30, that my spouse and I grew up in very different worlds and would forever have different values. It was painful for a few years. But I learned that, unless you feel you are “home” in every way and on every day you will not be living your best life.
Some people can feel at home in any corner of our globe because they have inner peace and are surrounded by their “tribe.” You have neither inner peace nor own your tribe. Its time to move in the right direction. Figure out how to make that happen.
I think a good ol' conversation would make sense. Talking about this "road bump" would relieve what I am feeling and how they interact among each other.
(I can say from this expereince is that Italians are absolutely different than what we were perceived to believe from Hollywood films.)
At least I had the opportunity to take the risk that thousands of people would kill for. My character has changed quite a bit since my very first day in Italy. I knew no Italian at all. I had no idea what Italians were saying to me in person, especially in a large group. Now there has been a tremendous amount of growth. Everyone thinks that growth is painless and easy. They are wrong. Tears creates true character.
*I am not a label person, in which I don't obsess to be in a "tribe".
One of your comments: "in reality you are uncomfortable and feel emotionally isolated." ---This is true. Not going to lie. However, do you have a good solution to this sensation? What would you suggest on how to get past those feelings in a foreign country?
Another comment: "I have done some traveling and am very aware that many people in other countries dislike America’s global politics and in turn, American citizens. I have seen some Americans behave very poorly when I have been in Europe. I understand the general distain for Americans “in theory.” ---I am a different American, obviously... at this point it should be all clear. Umm, there is no hidden agenda with me. I have nothing against this country. There are many bad guys than good guys. What the bad guys did or do now has an effect on me and where I am, but that is not me. I am not those bad guys. Cultural education is more important than a language. Mannerisms are important.
I can say this though... La Dolce Vita era is no longer here and this change has created something totally different among the people.
*We are in dark times now than ever before.
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