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I have never really consciously thought about it that much. I'd like to think that if a woman was being harassed in public, physically, that men around would intercede, but I'm not so sure that even would happen. You see too many vid clips of men and women being assaulted in public with many people just recording it on their phones, so clearly that isn't a sense of "responsibility" in that case.
Assuming that "feeling safe" is almost completely subjective, how could I ever go about identifying what my responsibility is to make a woman feel this way?
For me there are two different kinds.
My partner makes me feel safe in a way that he doesn't have major secrets, doesn't do shady stuff behind my back, doesn't talk bad about me to others and doesn't flirt with other women. I feel safe in the relationship.
I also like to feel safe physically because I know in an emergency situation he could carry me, he would jump in front of me if I would get attacked, he would give me his jacket if I am cold and other men stay off of me in respect to him.
Generally, I like to fight my own battles - if there is ever an altercation where I am in a verbal fight with someone, I like when he stays out of it and just silently stands next to me. The chances of it becoming physical with just me are minimal. The chances of becoming physical if he joins, are really high.
I have never in my life had a physical fight despite picking several verbal fights with someone harassing me or when it comes to animal welfare. However, I could not be with a guy who is not strong. If his arms are thinner than mine, that doesn't work for me.
I have never really consciously thought about it that much. I'd like to think that if a woman was being harassed in public, physically, that men around would intercede, but I'm not so sure that even would happen. You see too many vid clips of men and women being assaulted in public with many people just recording it on their phones, so clearly that isn't a sense of "responsibility" in that case.
As many here are trying to tell you, it depends completely on the circumstances.
If you are a stranger interacting with a woman you do not know in public:
Do not overtly stare, do not follow her. You can try to catch someone's eye or make a friendly conversational comment, but you need to be able to see when they are giving you cold body language and/or clipped responses, and do not make them feel trapped by continuing to assert your attention. It is not appropriate to pursue a woman romantically at her place of employment because she has to be there if she wants to pay rent and eat, she's a captive audience. Really it is best not to make women you don't know feel cornered or aggressively pursued. It's fine to try and chat with strangers in a friendly way, but I'd say only if you can understand the concept of non-verbal consent. If she turns to you, smiles, and engages in the conversation, the is probably comfortable talking to you. If she glances at you and then looks pointedly away, crosses her arms, tries to move away, looks super awkward...she does not want the interaction. Refocus your attention elsewhere and leave her be.
That's just some basic "how to human" stuff right there. It isn't a LEGAL responsibility to have manners, but it sure will get you better results when interacting with your own species. And if you utterly disregard this sort of thing to an extreme extent of, say, following a young woman home making her uncomfortable on purpose for your own jollies...well there might be some states with laws about stalking and harassment that could come into play. I would like for men to understand that there is no situation in which being made to feel unsafe in this way is a game women secretly enjoy playing with you. And particularly if you are told or asked to back off, freaking back off.
Do I have a responsibility to constantly adjust my movements, speech and gaze so as not to make a woman uncomfortable? Do I just "suck it up" every time a woman crosses the street as I approach, shifts nervously in an elevator as I enter or clutches her purse if I happen to be standing too close in her estimation? The problem with this is that feeling uncomfortable is completely subjective, especially when it comes to strangers dealing with strangers. Normal movements from one guy may appear to be creepy or intimidating coming from another guy. Should I have to walk on eggshells my entire life while dealing with women in the name of good manners? How do you think a man may start to feel when he is seen as more of a perennial threat than a human being going about his day? A common response to these questions tends to be along the lines of, "Well, don't blame women, rather blame the men who have made women be constantly on edge." What does this mean, precisely? Should I be made to absolve the sins of all the wayward men I have nothing to do with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
On early dates with someone you do not already know:
Respect her desire for safety protocols. Most of us know to meet in public places, drive ourselves there, park in well lit places, not be in private with you, possibly even have a safe call. Don't take these things personally. Instead, if you see a woman implementing any of these, understand that you are going on a date with a woman who has got good sense. Frankly, I'd think that if I were a guy and considering a long term relationship with a woman, I'd much prefer one with the good sense to try and keep herself safe as a default. And absolutely 100% respect all mutual consent stuff and the use of protection during sex, etc.
I don't think I would have a dog in this fight, as I have basically resigned to being dateless. Not worth it to me. But I do see where you're coming from regarding exercising common-sense safety measures.
Because we live in the real world in which men as a group are bigger, stronger, more aggressive, and more driven by sexual desire than women.
I am sure you could cherry pick some examples of a man being beaten or raped by a woman. But they would be outnumbered a thousand to one by examples of the opposite.
Well first of all you decided to hijack the thread , in you don't need know man style, and decided to use it as a platform to complain about men that will inherently not listen to you.
Men that would listen to your appeal will generally not be the ones who will engage in antisocial behavior. This is the reason why we also try to tell women not to wear a miniskirt in the wrong places because there are certain men , and women for that matter, that simply will not listen to anything. Sure, there are some people that blame the victim( as we see in India), however the right to flash cash on the bus is not a right I will choose to exercise.
The thread is about should men protect women. If its not a concern for you , great, you live where its safe.
Whats ironic is someone decided to use reputation to call me a "fascist" for my comment, and said I would not bother listening anyway which was the very point I made. Not a very bright person . Part of the problem again is men are now generally punished for intervention so you are on your own when district attorneys catch and release or for the jerks.
Thank you for responding. This tells me everything I need to know about how much weight to give your comments.
I'm old school, and I am 62 years old. My wife and daughter have seen me and know that I will always be there, and I take that seriously.
No one at work disrespects the girls there, I make sure of it. And I demand apologies.
On the train and the bus I have sat next to women who I see feel uncomfortable from disrespectful men. I have been thanked multiple times.
We owe our fairer sex the the right to feel safe in any environment. If not anything can happen by jerks or even worse.
I ask a question back... how would you feel if your wife, mother, or daughter needed someone to step up for them? Now answer the OP question.
I get your value system. You obviously will stand up and defend the women in your life if they are being intimidated in any way.
But let me ask you this.
Does it matter if the person being intimidated on the bus was male or female?
What if some skinny, small male was being bullied / intimidated by a bigger male? Would you let that go because it's a guy who should be able to "defend" himself?
I personally hate bullies or people who attack any "innocent" person. Whether that be my niece or my nephew being picked on, I'd like to think somebody would "step up" for them.
Close friends and relative/wife etc excluded of course.
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Why bring gender into it? No one of any gender should make another person feel unsafe while in their company.