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Desire is the same as a sense of lack of something. Money, love, prestige. When the desire is fulfilled, the lack stays. When money is plenty, anxiety of losing it fills in. When love is gained, fear of losing love sets in. It is clear none of these truly brings contentment, nor satisfy the lack.
Contentment rises from the self. The source of happiness is internal, not external to us. When you are content it is easy to give - empathy, compassion, generosity. When all you have is lack and inadequacy, there is nothing to give.
All emotions are transient and the trap is to try to maintain one of those, for example "being happy" is not a 24 hour 7 days a week possibility. Strive for contentment, self respect, and accept that all the emotions are temnporary. You are correct that happiness is internal, not external, but it is also transient just like anger or depression, unless you wallow in it or waste your time in search of constant happiness.
As for anger, which leads to depression when constant, if you experience something minor (like someone cutting you off in traffic) that triggers anger that ruins your whole day then you need to examine what that anger really is, as it indicates the anger is not based in current reality, but past unresolved anger.
All emotions are transient and the trap is to try to maintain one of those, for example "being happy" is not a 24 hour 7 days a week possibility. Strive for contentment, self respect, and accept that all the emotions are temnporary. You are correct that happiness is internal, not external, but it is also transient just like anger or depression, unless you wallow in it or waste your time in search of constant happiness.
As for anger, which leads to depression when constant, if you experience something minor (like someone cutting you off in traffic) that triggers anger that ruins your whole day then you need to examine what that anger really is, as it indicates the anger is not based in current reality, but past unresolved anger.
What we think of as happiness is indeed transient, and it is so because it hinges on attachment to something material. But the happiness that always resides within is from contentment - I am ok, I am not in need, I have no fear.
The basic eastern idea is that life is inherently a bit of suffering. If I don't have something, then I suffer until I get it. But once I get it, then I suffer because I'm afraid I'll lose it. So desire is a problem. In the west, we attempt to get around this fundamental truth by creating a ceaseless parade of desires w/ a loony tunes idea that eventually we will get everything we want and then we will be happy, but that just makes things worse. Happiness is forever just beyond our reach.
If we want to eliminate suffering (to a certain extent), sooner or later we have to deal w/ desire. But it isn't really the desire itself, it's the grasping onto things that causes the suffering. If I can desire something but be OK w/ having it or not having it, then no problem.
Once we realize that all things are impermanent we can begin to get to that have it or not have it place, because whatever we have will always, always go away. Just as at some point we will go away. This really isn't something we learn, it's something we have to experience.
Last edited by stephenMM; 02-29-2024 at 07:29 PM..
The basic eastern idea is that life is inherently a bit of suffering. If I don't have something, then I suffer until I get it. But once I get it, then I suffer because I'm afraid I'll lose it. So desire is a problem. In the west, we attempt to get around this fundamental truth by creating a ceaseless parade of desires w/ a loony tunes idea that eventually we will get everything we want and then we will be happy, but that just makes things worse. Happiness is forever just beyond our reach.
If we want to eliminate suffering (to a certain extent), sooner or later we have to deal w/ desire. But it isn't really the desire itself, it's the grasping onto things that causes the suffering. If I can desire something but be OK w/ having it or not having it, then no problem.
Once we realize that all things are impermanent we can begin to get to that have it or not have it place, because whatever we have will always, always go away. Just as at some point we will go away. This really isn't something we learn, it's something we have to experience.
Very well said and worth repeating.
Tying this into mindfulness and living in the here and now can help to further control the grasping/desiring beast.
The basic eastern idea is that life is inherently a bit of suffering. If I don't have something, then I suffer until I get it. But once I get it, then I suffer because I'm afraid I'll lose it. So desire is a problem. In the west, we attempt to get around this fundamental truth by creating a ceaseless parade of desires w/ a loony tunes idea that eventually we will get everything we want and then we will be happy, but that just makes things worse. Happiness is forever just beyond our reach.
If we want to eliminate suffering (to a certain extent), sooner or later we have to deal w/ desire. But it isn't really the desire itself, it's the grasping onto things that causes the suffering. If I can desire something but be OK w/ having it or not having it, then no problem.
Once we realize that all things are impermanent we can begin to get to that have it or not have it place, because whatever we have will always, always go away. Just as at some point we will go away. This really isn't something we learn, it's something we have to experience.
Exactly. The desire for a cup of coffee is not going to create the bondage that is suffering. It is the attachment to coffee, the addiction to caffeine, that causes eventual suffering. This bondage to caffeine is the result of inadequate self-inquiry, which, when made, will set us free from the addiction.
A Conscious Self, represented to some extent in a human, is a twain. It is Feeling-and-Desire. Inseparable. In human, Feeling is represented as a female principle, Desire - as a male principle.
As in Self, they are simply two aspects of the same self conscious entity, they intervein and interact continuously. Feeling is causing Desire. Desire, Action, causes new Feeling. New Feeling causes new Desire. So it goes.
There is difference between an accomplished Self and "incomplete", for the lack of better word, Self. In accomplished one, Feeling-and-Desire is balanced.
In Unaccomplished one, Feeling-and-Desire is unbalanced. Its thinking results in creation of thoughts, leading to attachment to the products or results of thoughts. Such thinking draws that Self "down", so to speak, to the lower planes. eventually, it ends on the physical plane of the Physical World, particularly, on Earth. Being represented, to some extent, in a human being.
Desire is the same as a sense of lack of something. Money, love, prestige. When the desire is fulfilled, the lack stays. When money is plenty, anxiety of losing it fills in. When love is gained, fear of losing love sets in. It is clear none of these truly brings contentment, nor satisfy the lack.
Contentment rises from the self. The source of happiness is internal, not external to us. When you are content it is easy to give - empathy, compassion, generosity. When all you have is lack and inadequacy, there is nothing to give.
The claim is that desire and lacking something are of equal value. However, in some instances, desire can have a positive connotation whereas lacking something usually connotes negativity most of the time.
The next claim is that when desire is fulfilled, the lack stays. Fulfilling desire is usually seen as something positive such as gaining love, gaining money, etc. However, the lack remains which is seen as something negative; the consequences can be anxiety and loss. Therefore, because lack and desire have been equated, the implication is that desire, especially desire of outside factors, is the source of the conflict.
Because these explanations don't fit perfectly for me, instead, I would identify the perception of the word conflict as the source of the problem. Conflict doesn't always have to mean something bad. Conflict can provide an alternative structure to our daily lives that would otherwise just be a series of causes and effects that are usually in the control of the more powerful. "Oh, this happened. It's a problem. How can we fix it?" rather than "Oh, this happened. Oh well."
Once the concept of conflict is seen as an alternative to cause and effect, we can better differentiate the two and deal with each more effectively. In the OP above, desire and lack are equated. However, when comparing the examples of desire and lack, the two look more like cause and effect. For example, I gained love, but I am afraid to lose it. If I never gained love, then I would not be afraid to lose it. One had to occur before the other - cause and effect.
By identifying this relationship as cause and effect instead of treating the words as synonyms, it can be pointed out that consequences, even self-imposed ones, don't really allow us to problem-solve because they come from something more powerful than us. They also tend to be one solution usually benefiting the more powerful.
So when somebody says that they desire love, we don't have to immediately jump on the idea that this person lacks love so this will lead to something bad. Instead, it can be seen as something that can be solved in more than one way as the OP pointed out - loving oneself (internal), and loving others (empathy, compassion, and generosity). The desire can be seen as a person's attempt to grow and growth occurs in more than one way. That would fit into the structure of problem and solution - something not necessarily bad.
The claim is that desire and lacking something are of equal value. However, in some instances, desire can have a positive connotation whereas lacking something usually connotes negativity most of the time.
The next claim is that when desire is fulfilled, the lack stays. Fulfilling desire is usually seen as something positive such as gaining love, gaining money, etc. However, the lack remains which is seen as something negative; the consequences can be anxiety and loss. Therefore, because lack and desire have been equated, the implication is that desire, especially desire of outside factors, is the source of the conflict.
Why? There is no conflict.
Desire is a problem only when it results in attachment to the object. All objects are bound to change, decay, or die, vanish, lost. The desire is not the problem, the attachment is. When one is content, which is a very good thing, there is no desire, there is no want of anything. It is fullness, and only fullness comes out of fullness, not lack.
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Originally Posted by elyn02
So when somebody says that they desire love, we don't have to immediately jump on the idea that this person lacks love so this will lead to something bad. Instead, it can be seen as something that can be solved in more than one way as the OP pointed out - loving oneself (internal), and loving others (empathy, compassion, and generosity). The desire can be seen as a person's attempt to grow and growth occurs in more than one way. That would fit into the structure of problem and solution - something not necessarily bad.
No we certainly don't that would not be very loving, would it? This is about knowledge of our self, of our own self-health. When we desire love it only means we are lacking in love, yearning for it. If we had love in our life we would not be desiring it, we would not be in want of it. And once we do get that love there is no certainty that we will always have it. On the other hand if we love our self, are gentle and kind to our self and keep self healthy, we will overflow with love, we cannot lose it. And only love grows out of love for all around.
What we think of as happiness is indeed transient, and it is so because it hinges on attachment to something material.
Happiness is not permanent because it’s a feeling/emotion. Our lives consist of many emotions relative to relationships and external factors where one may override another at any given time - including desire.
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