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Why? There is no conflict.
Desire is a problem only when it results in attachment to the object. All objects are bound to change, decay, or die, vanish, lost. When one is content, which is a very good thing, there is no desire, there is no want of anything. It is fullness, and only fullness comes out of fullness, not lack.
There is no conflict if fullness is the permanent state starting from birth. Even if all living beings achieve fullness in adulthood as a state of mind, which is not being attached to an object, there are still new living beings that are not "content" and should/have to/can be attended to with objects that the enlightened ones will seek.
Your conflict is very specific. It is when there is an attachment to an object that will go through cause-and-effect experiences and eventually become "lost", but there is an expectation that this should not happen. If the person is very attached to the point of never wanting to lose, then this is cause-and-effect as there is only one outcome for this person. You are proposing that one should be content instead of attached which is not a natural state for this person. Therefore, you are proposing one solution, but the structure is problem-and-solutions, not problem-and-one solution, which would sound very similar to the person who feels they have no choice but to be attached to an object. In situations where there is only one possible outcome, whether you call it "effect" or "solution", there is a lack of control. So the lack remains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
No we certainly don't that would not be very loving, would it? This is about knowledge of our self, of our own self-health. When we desire love it only means we are lacking in love, yearning for it. If we had love in our life we would not be desiring it, we would not be in want of it. And once we do get that love there is no certainty that we will always have it. On the other hand if we love our self, are gentle and kind to our self and keep self healthy, we will overflow with love, we cannot lose it. And only love grows out of love for all around.
Yearning for love is a cause-and-effect since it is a natural emotion that arises. I can decide if it is a problem or not. And if I decide it is a problem, I will brainstorm possible reasons and possible solutions.
There is no conflict if fullness is the permanent state starting from birth. Even if all living beings achieve fullness in adulthood as a state of mind, which is not being attached to an object, there are still new living beings that are not "content" and should/have to/can be attended to with objects that the enlightened ones will seek. .
Fullness is the natural state of being. Except it does not last because our mind seeks and finds and tells us, our ego, what is lacking. All living beings have the capacity to condition their mind, and they can either choose to or not. Conditioning the mind is understanding that contentment is happiness, and craving, which is the result of attachment, leads to suffering. It is a matter of mindful living and what we value. Each of us are free to live the way we decide, and resolve our own conflicts that exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02
Your conflict is very specific. It is when there is an attachment to an object that will go through cause-and-effect experiences and eventually become "lost", but there is an expectation that this should not happen. If the person is very attached to the point of never wanting to lose, then this is cause-and-effect as there is only one outcome for this person. You are proposing that one should be content instead of attached which is not a natural state for this person. Therefore, you are proposing one solution, but the structure is problem-and-solutions, not problem-and-one solution, which would sound very similar to the person who feels they have no choice but to be attached to an object. In situations where there is only one possible outcome, whether you call it "effect" or "solution", there is a lack of control. So the lack remains.
Yearning for love is a cause-and-effect since it is a natural emotion that arises. I can decide if it is a problem or not. And if I decide it is a problem, I will brainstorm possible reasons and possible solutions.
What is natural and general experience is that the only thing we can count on is change. Change is the constant. It is not cause and effect but change of condition. Love is not the cause of loss of love, but that love changes to something else, or ceases to be, also a change. When we accept this to be the only truth, which it is, then we can accommodate the uncertainties of life with more equanimity, letting go.
If one decided they have no choice but to be attached maybe they need to examine why this is so. That very act may set them free. Which is what we all want, to be free.
There is no conflict if fullness is the permanent state starting from birth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Fullness is the natural state of being.
Are you both speaking to ‘fullness’ as in Buddhism and other eastern religions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Conditioning the mind is understanding that contentment is happiness , and craving, which is the result of attachment, leads to suffering.
One must first understand that contentment is an attitude/state of mind whereas happiness is a feeling/emotion. That said, again, it’s maladaptive behavior that is the problem (as opposed to the desire, or craving, in and of itself).
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 03-09-2024 at 11:15 AM..
Reason: added quote/response
Desire is the same as a sense of lack of something. Money, love, prestige. When the desire is fulfilled, the lack stays. When money is plenty, anxiety of losing it fills in. When love is gained, fear of losing love sets in. It is clear none of these truly brings contentment, nor satisfy the lack.
Contentment rises from the self. The source of happiness is internal, not external to us. When you are content it is easy to give - empathy, compassion, generosity. When all you have is lack and inadequacy, there is nothing to give.
Some men can control their lust for money, power and women. Some men can’t.
It is part of who they are.
It’s hard to say what ultimately brings happiness or contentment.
Some men can control their lust for money, power and women. Some men can’t.
It is part of who they are.
It’s hard to say what ultimately brings happiness or contentment.
Happiness is dependent on possession of objects and experience. It never lasts because objects and experience do not last. When we lose them sadness and absence are what remain.
Contentment is independent of possession and experience. It is a state of being.
What brings contentment is a mental attitude based on values: Neutrality, neither love nor hate, a general sense of goodwill and compassionate generosity towards the world, absence of revenge or anger, disenchantment with belongings. There may be others that bring contentment, but i think they all point to or related to those mentioned.
Some men can control their lust for money, power and women. Some men can’t. It’s hard to say what ultimately brings happiness or contentment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Happiness is dependent on possession of objects and experience. It never lasts because objects and experience do not last.
Individual ways of thinking as well as achievements, career, positive relationships, and so on all contribute to one’s happiness or contentment. The (philosophical) distinction often made relative to desire is that it is a craving for pleasure. Hence, when folks are unable to sort the difference (and believe the fulfillment of a desire, in and of itself, results in happiness) is when maladaptive behavior relative to such is most likely to occur.
Happiness is dependent on possession of objects and experience. It never lasts because objects and experience do not last. When we lose them sadness and absence are what remain.
Contentment is independent of possession and experience. It is a state of being.
What brings contentment is a mental attitude based on values: Neutrality, neither love nor hate, a general sense of goodwill and compassionate generosity towards the world, absence of revenge or anger, disenchantment with belongings. There may be others that bring contentment, but i think they all point to or related to those mentioned.
This all sounds good in theory, and I appreciate your point of view.
But what if I come to know a man living in a 50,000 square foot mansion and wonder why I can't achieve something like that for myself?
How does desire, want and contentment work in that context?
This all sounds good in theory, and I appreciate your point of view.
But what if I come to know a man living in a 50,000 square foot mansion and wonder why I can't achieve something like that for myself?
How does desire, want and contentment work in that context?
Isn't this about ego?
Are you are asking isn’t the wanting of a 50k SF mansion about ego? Yes it is, it is about the ego.
The part of you that understands it is the ego that is wanting, also knows once the mansion is achieved, there will be something else the ego wants. There is always a want. Because it is not the mansion but the lack of something, the want, the drives the ego.
Contentment is independent of possessions, and is absent of want.
Fullness is the natural state of being. Except it does not last because our mind seeks and finds and tells us, our ego, what is lacking. All living beings have the capacity to condition their mind, and they can either choose to or not. Conditioning the mind is understanding that contentment is happiness, and craving, which is the result of attachment, leads to suffering. It is a matter of mindful living and what we value. Each of us are free to live the way we decide, and resolve our own conflicts that exist.
That's not a bad way of looking at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
What is natural and general experience is that the only thing we can count on is change. Change is the constant. It is not cause and effect but change of condition. Love is not the cause of loss of love, but that love changes to something else, or ceases to be, also a change. When we accept this to be the only truth, which it is, then we can accommodate the uncertainties of life with more equanimity, letting go.
If one decided they have no choice but to be attached maybe they need to examine why this is so. That very act may set them free. Which is what we all want, to be free.
Change has to have a cause especially if the claim is being made that "all living beings have the capacity to condition their mind."
Are you both speaking to ‘fullness’ as in Buddhism and other eastern religions?
I couldn't say as I don't know for sure what it means in Buddhism and eastern religions. My guess it has to do with disciplining oneself to be content.
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