Are black Brits -Brits or "black Brits.."?? (furnish, yard)
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Personally the way I see it, is that It shouldn't matter about someones skin colour. to say?
People are more than their skin color. Indeed Caribbean British blacks consider themselves to be a separate ethnic group from African British blacks. And Scottish people definitely see themselves as completely different from the English.
The fact remains is that people have their own heritages. They also have their own baggage about how they fit into each society, and how they perceive the society views them. And they often develop an ethnic identity based on this.
Provided that the abide by the basic rules of society, chief among them being learning the native language and the hard and soft skills that they will need to be productive citizens, then why should you care about how people identify?
Even if Scotland declares independence it will still be "British". there.
The issue isn't whether some one considers themselves to be British or not. The issue is whether they have their own ethnic identities, and it is obvious that most Caribbean, African, Indian, Pakistani, and other British people of immigrant origin do, especially if non white. Most do not consider themselves to be identical to the English, though there are obvious exceptions to the rule.
So yes just as a Scottish person doesn't consider themselves to be English, because they have their own ethnic identity so do the majority of blacks of Caribbean and African origin.
The issue isn't whether some one considers themselves to be British or not. The issue is whether they have their own ethnic identities, and it is obvious that most Caribbean, African, Indian, Pakistani, and other British people of immigrant origin do, especially if non white. Most do not consider themselves to be identical to the English, though there are obvious exceptions to the rule.
So yes just as a Scottish person doesn't consider themselves to be English, because they have their own ethnic identity so do the majority of blacks of Caribbean and African origin.
Of course different people have different 'ethnic identities' but the answer to the original question is that black British people tend to refer to themselves as just 'British'. There is a difference between how people identify / view themselves in the US compared to in the UK. Black Americans will call themselves 'African American', Americans with Irish ancestors call themselves 'Irish American', Americans with Italian ancestors will call themselves 'Italian American', all we (the British who have answered on here) are saying is that this is simply not the case here, British people with Irish, Italian or African ancestory will simply just refer to themselves as 'British' - remember being British is NOT an ethnicity and doesn't have anything to do with 'genetics'. Personally I have Scots and Welsh in my (recent) ancestory but I do not go to the pub dressed in a kilt, I don't call myself 'Scottish English', I am aware of my recent ancestory and I am as proud of the Scots in my past family as I am of any of my (probably very mixed European ancestory) I certainly don't deny my Scottish ancestory but as a human being that was born, brought up and lives in England I am 100% English (and 100% British too).
Of course different people have different 'ethnic identities' but the answer to the original question is that black British people tend to refer to themselves as just 'British'. There is a difference between how people identify / view themselves in the US compared to in the UK. Black Americans will call themselves 'African American', Americans with Irish ancestors call themselves 'Irish American', Americans with Italian ancestors will call themselves 'Italian American', all we (the British who have answered on here) are saying is that this is simply not the case here, British people with Irish, Italian or African ancestory will simply just refer to themselves as 'British' - remember being British is NOT an ethnicity and doesn't have anything to do with 'genetics'. Personally I have Scots and Welsh in my (recent) ancestory but I do not go to the pub dressed in a kilt, I don't call myself 'Scottish English', I am aware of my recent ancestory and I am as proud of the Scots in my past family as I am of any of my (probably very mixed European ancestory) I certainly don't deny my Scottish ancestory but as a human being that was born, brought up and lives in England I am 100% English (and 100% British too).
Your example isn't relevant.
1. Scotland is much closer to England culturally than is either the Caribbean or Africa.
2. A black person is highly visible as some one who is different. You aren't.
3. It wasn't that long ago that blacks were attacked in the streets, and they still face harassment by the police, and additional challenges in achieving upward mobility. There are enough statistics to indicate that blacks in the UK have a very different socio economic profile than do whites. EVEN Africans, despite being considerably MORE EDUCATED than the average native white is.
4. Even when one adjusts for education black males (African, Caribbean AND those who identify with neither) have lower incomes, and higher unemployment levels than do native whites.
5. Many blacks even today claim that many whites ask them where they are from, suggesting that they aren't fully accepted as English yet, which is why most prefer the term British.
So I fully understand where you are coming from, but your situation isn't one that most blacks in the UK identify with.
A black person with long term roots in the USA uses the term African American, or more commonly black American, to define who they are.
Most black people in the UK define themselves with regard to their immigrant origins.
So here is the difference. Separated from Africa for over 200 years and only knowledgeable about their lives in the USA, black Americans (most prefer that term by the way) define themselves as a specific ethnic group in the USA.
In the UK 85% of the blacks chose instead an identity which links them to their immediate immigrant roots.
The reality is that in neither the UK, nor the USA do most blacks see themselves as indistinguishable from other groups.
This isn't to say that there aren't blacks in the USA or the UK who see themselves as exactly like their white compatriots, but in neither case is this the majority.
Black Americans don't call themselves "African-American," that's what sheltered PC white liberals do.
Some black Americans call themselves African American, and some don't. The MAJORITY of black Americans have a very different perspective of life in the USA from white Americans, and one only need look at surveys concerning Ferguson to see this.
People are more than their skin color. Indeed Caribbean British blacks consider themselves to be a separate ethnic group from African British blacks. And Scottish people definitely see themselves as completely different from the English.
The fact remains is that people have their own heritages. They also have their own baggage about how they fit into each society, and how they perceive the society views them. And they often develop an ethnic identity based on this.
Provided that the abide by the basic rules of society, chief among them being learning the native language and the hard and soft skills that they will need to be productive citizens, then why should you care about how people identify?
You make a fair point, but rather than being called Caribbean British Black or African British Black, why don't they just be called Caribbean British or African British? I mean I'm British, and although I'm white, at the end of the day it is just the colour of my skin, that doesn't make me culturally different to a Black or Olive looking person. For me it is the nationality that should be named not the colour, as everyone is part of the same race...
1. Scotland is much closer to England culturally than is either the Caribbean or Africa.
2. A black person is highly visible as some one who is different. You aren't.
3. It wasn't that long ago that blacks were attacked in the streets, and they still face harassment by the police, and additional challenges in achieving upward mobility. There are enough statistics to indicate that blacks in the UK have a very different socio economic profile than do whites. EVEN Africans, despite being considerably MORE EDUCATED than the average native white is.
4. Even when one adjusts for education black males (African, Caribbean AND those who identify with neither) have lower incomes, and higher unemployment levels than do native whites.
5. Many blacks even today claim that many whites ask them where they are from, suggesting that they aren't fully accepted as English yet, which is why most prefer the term British.
So I fully understand where you are coming from, but your situation isn't one that most blacks in the UK identify with.
A black person with long term roots in the USA uses the term African American, or more commonly black American, to define who they are.
Most black people in the UK define themselves with regard to their immigrant origins.
So here is the difference. Separated from Africa for over 200 years and only knowledgeable about their lives in the USA, black Americans (most prefer that term by the way) define themselves as a specific ethnic group in the USA.
In the UK 85% of the blacks chose instead an identity which links them to their immediate immigrant roots.
The reality is that in neither the UK, nor the USA do most blacks see themselves as indistinguishable from other groups.
This isn't to say that there aren't blacks in the USA or the UK who see themselves as exactly like their white compatriots, but in neither case is this the majority.
I'm sorry but what you say here just doesn't ring true with the Britain ( well the part of it I live in, the South East ) that I know, certainly not in the 21st century anyway, 85% of black British people do not chose an identity which links them to their immigrant ancestry - certainly not from my generation down particularly. You seem to have a very outdated view on the way things are here. Britain in the 21st century is a very multicultural, multi-racial society and a majority of us integrate fully, of the people I work closely with most have fairly recent immigration in their family. In my buying team alone I work with a woman who's recent ancestors were from Mauritius, a man whose ancestors are from Nigeria, a man whose ancestors are Brazilian and a woman who's ancestors are Italian (all immigrants in the 20th century) thats out of a total of 8 of us and we ALL consider ourselves British. Where I work is fairly typical of the town I'm currently living in. Of course there is a percentage of immigrant society that doesn't integrate with the 'mainstream' British society but its far from the majority.
You make a fair point, but rather than being called Caribbean British Black or African British Black, why don't they just be called Caribbean British or African British? I mean I'm British, and although I'm white, at the end of the day it is just the colour of my skin, that doesn't make me culturally different to a Black or Olive looking person. For me it is the nationality that should be named not the colour, as everyone is part of the same race...
The reason why they chose an ethnic identity, based on their immigrant origins is because they don't feel as if they are treated like, or have the same opportunities as an English person with their characteristics would have.
So its the fact that they are black which accounts for this. I can bet that the whites from the Caribbean and Africa just sink into the general white English population.
Their nationality is "British" by the way. Indeed the vast majority of Caribbean origin blacks were either born there or raised there and few know much about the Caribbean. Their ethnic identity is based on their experiences of life in the UK.
Race is social construct and until that social construct becomes meaningless those who feel excluded as a result of this construct will develop an ethno-racial identity. So appeals that "every is the same race" are meaningless when people who have a specific appearance are classified and treated on the basis of it.
Would you tell whites in South Africa to stop calling themselves white when clearly being white in post Apartheid South Africa has certain consequences?
Last edited by caribny; 08-30-2014 at 04:14 AM..
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