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We are sure in the same ballpark but I am not a fluent speaker of symbolism and I practice it every day, month, and year. Trying to figure out what all the words mean is hard, but it's the world I live in and I sure enjoy running into people like you, you can appreciate that another language exists.
I just practice every day but my little mind has such bad recall, I cant even remember what I dont know.
Hi MissKate12. Unfortunately, your premise has already been debunked several times in the thread already. Sorry.
Thank you for your response. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including the debunkers you mentioned.
Here’s how I see it. It’s all about faith, my friend, believing in things that defy logic. We don’t get to pick and choose which Bible stories to believe and which to reject. Either we completely trust in the Lord and wholly accept His word as truth, or we don’t.
I choose to believe . I choose to completely trust God's word over what men think.
Adam did not "die" on the "day" he ate of the forbidden fruit. He lived for a number of years afterwards. If you are taking the story literally, then it is what God told him would happen that is the lie. Since I don't believes God lies, there appears to have a pretty big problem with a literal translation of Genesis.
Unfortunately, your interpretation does not agree with the facts. Surely die means physical death. Day means day. The Hebrew says what it says and cannot be changed.
That is just made-up dogma. That point is addressed in the videos.
The Scriptures speak of two kinds of death, physical and spiritual. Paul is not writing about physical death in the following verses.
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Ephesians 2:1-3 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
It is not a lie. The couple died physically on that literal day. Here is when God resurrected them...
Genesis 3:7
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."
The couple went from being dust of the ground to having their 'eyes opened'. Note that sleep is often used as a metaphor for death in the Bible.
The story is a foreshadowing of the Resurrection of Damnation. Judgement comes after, hence Adam, Eve and the Serpent are judged in the following verses.
They are cast out of the Garden as a foreshadow of being cast from Heaven to the Lake of Fire, symbolized by the Flaming Sword and Cherubim.
Sorry Base12, but I believe your view is speculative!
You claim the story foreshadows the resurrection, yet you’ve given no Scriptural proof.
You claim the Lake of Fire is symbolized by the flaming sword and cherubim. Where’s the Scriptural proof of this?
Most important is that you deny spiritual death, as though it is non-existent in the Scriptures.
Please explain what it means to be “dead in your trespasses and sin.”
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Ephesians 2:1-3 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
The body without the spirit is dead! One can be alive physically, yet be spiritually dead. Look around. The world is filled with spiritually dead people.
”For just as the body without the spirit is dead,so also faith without works is dead" (James 2:26).
Sin separates us from God. Being separated from God is spiritual death.
Isaiah 59
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear.
The Greek term for death is “Thanatos.” It can mean physical or spiritual death depending on the context. This is how Greek language experts define it.
◄ 2288. thanatos ►
thanatos: death
Original Word: θάνατος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: thanatos
Phonetic Spelling: (than'-at-os)
Definition: death Usage: death, physical or spiritual.
I look forward to your response. Have a blessed day!
Kate
Last edited by MissKate12; Yesterday at 07:59 AM..
Yes, but the OP wasn't talking about spiritual death. He said that Adam and Eve died and then were resurrected when they were cast out of Eden.
I agree with you. His OP is not about spiritual death. My answer to Base12’s OP was that Adam & Eve did die that day. They died a spiritual death. Base12 says I’m wrong. I’m happy to know you believe there is such a thing as spiritual death.
BTW, I disagree with Base12’s opinion that Adam & Eve physically died and were resurrected that day. I can find no Scriptural proof for that view.
Hope your day is going well!
Kate
Last edited by MissKate12; Yesterday at 08:17 AM..
... Here’s how I see it. It’s all about faith, my friend, believing in things that defy logic. We don’t get to pick and choose which Bible stories to believe and which to reject. Either we completely trust in the Lord and wholly accept His word as truth, or we don’t.
1 Corinthians 2:14
the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Sorry Base12, but I believe your view is speculative!
You claim the story foreshadows the resurrection, yet you’ve given no Scriptural proof.
I have in my videos. I am too busy to do a lot of posting on here. It takes a long time to create these responses. Usually, they seem like a big waste of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
You claim the Lake of Fire is symbolized by the flaming sword and cherubim. Where’s the Scriptural proof of this?
One needs to understand that the symbolism reflects the Most Holy Place of the Tabernacle/Temple, which is a scale model of the Zygote we were all conceived from. The Temple is the Body. Human life begins at conception.
The Cherubim in Eden represent the Ark of the Covenant. The Flaming Sword represents the Spirit/Soul combo I wrote about in your Soul thread.
After passing through the Lake of Fire, the Soul and Spirit are placed in the Nucleolus of the Zygote to be reconceived.
I go over this in my Reincarnation video...
I often see folks on this forum tell me that I need to 'listen to the Jewish Scholars'. Where do you think most of this info comes from? I am not as ignorant as the members here think I am.
It is the Jewish Scholars that taught me that Eden was like Jerusalem and that the Garden was like the Temple. It is their teachings, not mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Most important is that you deny spiritual death, as though it is non-existent in the Scriptures.
It is because 'spiritual death' is man made false dogma...
The phrase spiritual death is not found in Protestant scriptures, and definitions of the concept thus vary among Protestant Christians. Spiritual death is distinct from physical death and the second death.
You are adding another death to the Bible. What number is that? The 'Third Death'?
Spiritual death is a lie to hide what Genesis 2:17 is actually teaching. Do you not see what the Church did there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Please explain what it means to be “dead in your trespasses and sin.”
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Ephesians 2:1-3 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
The above verses are absolutely, one hundred percent, LITERAL. Dead means dead, as in physical death. The verses are speaking of our past lives. You are so conditioned that you do not even see what has been there all along.
Did you read the entire context of the verses you quoted?
Ephesians 2:12
"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world."
We were dead when? We were dead way back in time before God was in the world. How long ago was that? I guarantee it was before you were born.
Moreover, have you ever educated yourself on what the word 'quickened' means? Look...
1 Corinthians 15:36
"Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die."
Do you see it? Only that which is *physically dead* can be quickened. Moreover, being quickened involves coming back in a new body!
It is about being resurrected!
1 Corinthians 15:35
"But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"
Therefore, one cannot claim that becoming a Christian is the same as being 'quickened from death' unless it involves being born again physically *in a new body!*.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
The body without the spirit is dead!
BINGO!!! *ALL* Life has the Spirit of God in it. The receiving of Holy Ghost is a renewal, not a first-time thing.
Was Jesus born without the Holy Spirit? According to you, the answer is yes. So much for having the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
One can be alive physically, yet be spiritually dead. Look around. The world is filled with spiritually dead people.
”For just as the body without the spirit is dead,so also faith without works is dead" (James 2:26).
What you are describing is called being 'twice dead', which is a Biblical term...
Jude 1:12
"These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots"
In other words, they are already condemned to the Second Death. Yet, according to you, spiritual death and twice dead are two different things. See the problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Sin separates us from God. Being separated from God is spiritual death.
Again, if spiritual death meant that a person was already doomed to the Lake of Fire, then it would make perfect sense.
Yet, you and everyone else teach that they are two different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Isaiah 59
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear.
That is what being twice dead is. It means they *will* experience the Second Death. In other words, God does not change his mind. Judgment is set.
Thus, if we were 'dead in trespasses', then we were thrown into the Lake of Fire and ended up back here again. To suggest otherwise is contradicting Scripture.
Last edited by Base12; Yesterday at 11:02 AM..
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