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One of the biggest lies that is told by the Church is that Genesis 2:17 is 'not literal'...
Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
They will either change the word 'day', or they will change the phrase 'surely die' to mean something they do not (e.g., day = thousand years, spiritual death, began to die, etc.).
According to Scholars who understand how to properly translate and interpret the text, both 'day' and 'surely die' are to be understood as being literal.
Many resources may be found on the internet that go into great detail on this topic.
Example 1:
Finally, to interpret Genesis 2:17 as announcing natural consequences instead of a juridical penalty ignores the overwhelming biblical evidence of how authors used the phrase in question throughout the Old Testament. As such, the natural consequences interpretation seems to establish human arbiters as higher authorities than the text to determine its truthfulness and relevance. Scripture no longer interprets Scripture.
They did die that day... spiritually separated from the source of life, which is God. Physical death (separation of soul & spirit from the body) was an added penalty.
A branch on a tree is alive until it is cut away from the tree. It died at that point. The leaves remain green and it looks alive on day 1, day 2, day 3... but eventually the fact that it's dead will show as leaves get brown and brittle.
One of the biggest lies that is told by the Church is that Genesis 2:17 is 'not literal'...
Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
They will either change the word 'day', or they will change the phrase 'surely die' to mean something they do not (e.g., day = thousand years, spiritual death, began to die, etc.).
According to Scholars who understand how to properly translate and interpret the text, both 'day' and 'surely die' are to be understood as being literal.
Many resources may be found on the internet that go into great detail on this topic.
Example 1:
Finally, to interpret Genesis 2:17 as announcing natural consequences instead of a juridical penalty ignores the overwhelming biblical evidence of how authors used the phrase in question throughout the Old Testament. As such, the natural consequences interpretation seems to establish human arbiters as higher authorities than the text to determine its truthfulness and relevance. Scripture no longer interprets Scripture.
Here is another Bible Scholar that also agrees that 'day' and 'surely die' are literal...
Note that Dan McClellan in the above videos believes that God lied.
Although I agree with the above research that Genesis 2:17 is literal, I do not believe God lied.
So, why do so many Christians lie and claim that Genesis 2:17 is not literal? Is there an agenda here? Are they just ignorant?
First of all, no one is lying. People, including scholars, have different opinions and different interpretations about what the Bible says about some thing. Having a different interpretation is not lying.
Secondly, no part of either of the two Genesis creation stories is literal. The whole creation narratives are simply Hebrew adaptations of earlier ancient Near East creation stories and were intended as polemics against those earlier ANE creation events in order to give the Hebrew God Yahweh the credit for creation.
They did die that day... spiritually separated from the source of life, which is God. Physical death (separation of soul & spirit from the body) was an added penalty.
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Unfortunately, your interpretation does not agree with the facts. Surely die means physical death. Day means day. The Hebrew says what it says and cannot be changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Death = separation
That is just made-up dogma. That point is addressed in the videos.
People, including scholars, have different opinions and different interpretations about what the Bible says about some thing. Having a different interpretation is not lying.
If the interpretation is easily proven to be false, it is a lie. Moreover, corrections should be made from that point forward with regards to sermons, teaching materials, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Secondly, no part of either of the two Genesis creation stories is literal.
The issue is whether Genesis 2:17 speaks of a physical death or a spiritual death, and whether it speaks of a twenty-four hour or less period of time or a thousand years.
This thread is not about whether the creation stories themselves are literal or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
The whole creation narratives are simply Hebrew adaptations of earlier ancient Near East creation stories and were intended as polemics against those earlier ANE creation events in order to give the Hebrew God Yahweh the credit for creation.
Again, that has nothing to do with the OP. Besides attempting to derail the thread with your usual 'Genesis is a myth' propaganda, you have proven nothing.
No one is lying. A lie is a deliberate attempt to convey something that a person knows is not true.
Quote:
If the interpretation is easily proven to be false, it is a lie. Moreover, corrections should be made from that point forward with regards to sermons, teaching materials, etc.
No, if something is proven to be false concerning something in the Bible, it just means that the interpretation was wrong. It doesn't mean that someone was purposely stating something they knew to be wrong.
Quote:
The issue is whether Genesis 2:17 speaks of a physical death or a spiritual death, and whether it speaks of a twenty-four hour or less period of time or a thousand years.
This thread is not about whether the creation stories themselves are literal or not.
And yet, since the creation stories are not literal, then in reality, whether Genesis 2:17 speaks of a physical or a spiritual death is mute as it has no basis in reality.
Quote:
Again, that has nothing to do with the OP. Besides attempting to derail the thread with your usual 'Genesis is a myth' propaganda, you have proven nothing.
No derail is intended. And it's not propaganda. That the creation stories are not literal, that they are not historically true, has been proven over and over again by science as well as by ANE studies.
People, including scholars have different opinions about Genesis 2:17 because they are trying to make sense of what the passage is saying. They are not purposely 'lying.' They are not trying to deceive anyone. Whether the passage is thought to be referring to a 24 hour day or to a longer period, and whether the reference to death is thought to be physical or spiritual is simply a matter of interpretation based on theological presuppositions.
No one is lying. A lie is a deliberate attempt to convey something that a person knows is not true.
No, if something is proven to be false concerning something in the Bible, it just means that the interpretation was wrong. It doesn't mean that someone was purposely stating something they knew to be wrong.
And yet, since the creation stories are not literal, then in reality, whether Genesis 2:17 speaks of a physical or a spiritual death is mute as it has no basis in reality.
No derail is intended. And it's not propaganda. That the creation stories are not literal, that they are not historically true, has been proven over and over again by science as well as by ANE studies.
People, including scholars have different opinions about Genesis 2:17 because they are trying to make sense of what the passage is saying. They are not purposely 'lying.' They are not trying to deceive anyone. Whether the passage is thought to be referring to a 24 hour day or to a longer period, and whether the reference to death is thought to be physical or spiritual is simply a matter of interpretation based on theological presuppositions.
Unfortunately, your interpretation does not agree with the facts. Surely die means physical death. Day means day. The Hebrew says what it says and cannot be changed.
That is just made-up dogma. That point is addressed in the videos.
You say no... I say yes... In the end neither opinion matters.
If die means physical death as you say... what is Jesus referring to below? Seems like more than one death is in play.
Matthew 10:28 - Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The die / dying / death part is where we went from sinless and immortal, to sinful and mortal. Mortal means that we will all surely die, just as those old Judaic writings mentioned.
If you think you or anyone else can cheat death, then speak up. We could all use some entertainment today.
You say no... I say yes... In the end neither opinion matters.
If die means physical death as you say... what is Jesus referring to below? Seems like more than one death is in play.
Matthew 10:28 - Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Or this
Luk 9:59**And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Luk 9:60**Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
I’m of the opinion that it is the religious system and organisational types which are being referred to as spiritually ‘dead’ in Adam, it is where the sleeping in Christ are
All of Ephesians is written to ‘the church’ about their relationships with each other
Eph 5:10**Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11**And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12**For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13**But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14**Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15**See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Last edited by Meerkat2; Yesterday at 01:43 PM..
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