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this could be a good indoor option for winter months....
Good point! Considering all the attractions, entertainment venues and restaurants, Congel really needs to build a hotel and maybe a convention center adjacent to Destiny. Considering the state of the national economy and tight lending, I am not suggesting the 40 story tower originally proposed, but maybe something modest like 20 to 25 stories.
It makes total sense, it would be a one stop destination that could (imo) act as a platform that directs visitors and tourists to other points of interest in Syracuse/CNY, i.e. Armory Square, Hanover Square, Franklin Square, Inner-Harbor (when completed), University Hill, etc. Plus, the Creekwalk is close by that can lead people to the Connective Corridor if they want to venture out.
Last edited by urbanplanner; 04-23-2012 at 10:41 AM..
It makes total sense, it would be a one stop destination that could (imo) act as a platform that directs visitors and tourists to other points of interest in Syracuse/CNY, i.e. Armory Square, Hanover Square, Franklin Square, Inner-Harbor (when completed), University Hill, etc. Plus, the Creekwalk is close by that can lead people to the Connective Corridor if they want to venture out.
IMO, the one-stop destination bit is more of the problem I've had all along. The whole original point of the original Carousel Center PILOT was to spur non-Congel development in the surrounding area. With few exceptions (Stella's Diner, in spite of the eminent domain threat at the time; a Babies R Us and a Wendy's), it's done more to isolate itself than connect it to the rest of this city.
That's not sustainable, and it's not eminently useful for revitalizing this city. It's a huge mall that is more and more an island unto itself - and that's not going to revitalize much of anything. The record of spinoff success is... pitiful, and vital to the future of this city.
However, increasing sales taxs revenues, collecting taxes from stores, and people working at the mall can and will help other areas of the city only if 1.) the city must encourage congel to build a hotel with a casino. This is the best and easiest way to get outsiders to come to destiny (destiny USA will only work with the support of outsiders and is the best way to rack up tax revenues). 2.) congel should remodel the carousel center part of the mall and make it equally as nice ( people are attracted to things that look good, whenever I hear of someone going down south I always hear about how nice it is down there). 3.) with the increased tax revenue, the city must encourage businesses to open up in areas where we want to grow, for example, giving a company a tax break to build their business in Franklin square/armory square/ Kennedy square/ inner harbor. Finally, I think time will only tell; what will dramatically help Syracuse as a whole is if kenney square, inner harbor, Franklin square, the mall, and the lake become successful. This will help bring tourist from all over new york and attract some people outside the state/ country which all equals an increase of tax revenue and an increase in private investment which will dramatically help out run down areas of Syracuse. Syracuse has the potential, however, all must click in order become the city we want it to be. Also, I think deregulation will help some out as well. Cities like buffalo, Albany, and new york close their bars at 4 am. An extra two hours of open bars will help bring millions more in tax revunue to Syracuse. Main point, increase tax revenue as a whole so we can cut taxes and spend more to keep people working and living in Syracuse.
IMO, the one-stop destination bit is more of the problem I've had all along. The whole original point of the original Carousel Center PILOT was to spur non-Congel development in the surrounding area. With few exceptions (Stella's Diner, in spite of the eminent domain threat at the time; a Babies R Us and a Wendy's), it's done more to isolate itself than connect it to the rest of this city.
That's not sustainable, and it's not eminently useful for revitalizing this city. It's a huge mall that is more and more an island unto itself - and that's not going to revitalize much of anything. The record of spinoff success is... pitiful, and vital to the future of this city.
Yep, and the city's approval of a new skybridge over Hiawatha contributes to this problem. Carousel has spawned a massive dead zone; taking more pedestrians off the street (and speeding up through traffic) makes things worse, as does introducing vehicular traffic to the Creekwalk beneath the Hiawatha bridge.
There are ways to tie large, mixed-use shopping malls into the urban fabric (see Chevy Chase Pavilion). Despite its silly claims of sustainability and "green" consciousness, Carousel has opted instead for the 1980s suburban model. Surrounding neighborhoods are surely worse for it; the community has to find ways not to compound this problem. I'm afraid that adding a hotel wouldn't do that.
Yep, and the city's approval of a new skybridge over Hiawatha contributes to this problem. Carousel has spawned a massive dead zone; taking more pedestrians off the street (and speeding up through traffic) makes things worse, as does introducing vehicular traffic to the Creekwalk beneath the Hiawatha bridge.
There are ways to tie large, mixed-use shopping malls into the urban fabric (see Chevy Chase Pavilion). Despite its silly claims of sustainability and "green" consciousness, Carousel has opted instead for the 1980s suburban model. Surrounding neighborhoods are surely worse for it; the community has to find ways not to compound this problem. I'm afraid that adding a hotel wouldn't do that.
To be fair, with any kind of decent usage of the extra lots the skybridge is more or less essential without substantially altering the Solar/Hiawatha interchange to begin with. No part of Hiawatha Blvd in that area is well-designed for pedestrian traffic flow, and that part of Hiawatha Blvd in particular is not really conducive to pedestrian crossings. They could improve it, but it's generally high volume enough to be a problem. It's already a 40 zone if I'm not mistaken.
To be fair, with any kind of decent usage of the extra lots the skybridge is more or less essential without substantially altering the Solar/Hiawatha interchange to begin with. No part of Hiawatha Blvd in that area is well-designed for pedestrian traffic flow, and that part of Hiawatha Blvd in particular is not really conducive to pedestrian crossings. They could improve it, but it's generally high volume enough to be a problem. It's already a 40 zone if I'm not mistaken.
Correct, and it needs to be (especially if the current Creekwalk alignment is intended to be permanent and the urban development south of Bear is to successfully tie in to the fabric).
I don't know how much more volume Hiawatha at carries than, say, Salina at Fayette or Almond at Harrison, but it's both possible and desirable to accommodate all uses without pulling pedestrians off the street.
Correct, and it needs to be (especially if the current Creekwalk alignment is intended to be permanent and the urban development south of Bear is to successfully tie in to the fabric).
I don't know how much more volume Hiawatha at carries than, say, Salina at Fayette or Almond at Harrison, but it's both possible and desirable to accommodate all uses without pulling pedestrians off the street.
Counting turn lanes, Hiawatha is 7 lanes wide at that point. Go slightly further up near 81 and it turns into 8. Almond at Harrison isn't exactly a good example of a good intersection to cross at - it has the same problems, except at slightly lower speed. Out of all of the 81 overpass crossings, that's probably the least conducive to pedestrian use.
I wish the vision of Destiny USA had the Inner Harbor in mind and in turn serve as a connection between Carousel Center and Franklin Square and beyond. You could make the project "green" by reusing former warehouses not only for housing, but for retail. That is also where the aquarium idea could have been planted. So, it could have been a truly mixed use project in many ways.
Counting turn lanes, Hiawatha is 7 lanes wide at that point. Go slightly further up near 81 and it turns into 8. Almond at Harrison isn't exactly a good example of a good intersection to cross at - it has the same problems, except at slightly lower speed. Out of all of the 81 overpass crossings, that's probably the least conducive to pedestrian use.
Sounds to me like we agree - both intersections are overbuilt for through traffic; Harrison supports (however unpleasantly) pedestrian crossings, Hiawatha (directly between the city's much-touted stadium/market and Inner Harbor revitalization areas) is moving away from supporting pedestrian activity.
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