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PS
I can't recommend downtown Fresno for you unless there's a big event there.. Too many messed up buildings and not enough people living down there. I think it needs 5 more years of clean up before it's worth recommending. The mayor has plans for it, but covid put a halt to them.
Last edited by dontbelievehim; 03-28-2022 at 10:47 PM..
PS
I can't recommend downtown Fresno for you unless there's a big event there..
The story of Fresno right there. Embarrassing that locals cant recommend or hesitate to go to downtown. That should be the goto for visitors/tourists but we simply cant because it leaves a sour and negative taste for them and leaves them with an impression of Fresno that isnt good and may strengthen the already negative stigma Fresno they may had even before stepping foot here.
When there is a big event there, it does give a glimmer of hope and what could be. But when there isnt one, its just sad and it's constant "there is so much potential here".
I feel there simply isnt a diverse income level of residents in and around downtown. I believe there is data around that show around the area is mostly low income residents. Unless there is a reason for people to be in downtown they wont, and those with money are up north or in clovis. With a lack of white collar and higher paying jobs around downtown, there is no incentive for anyone to live close by downtown too.
In contrast while sac, there are a lot of things catered for tourist. It's usually a thing to bring visitors to downtown sac. OBviously the state capitol, old sac, walk over the bridge, visiting an NBA stadium, etc.
If it wasnt for SJ sharks, and san jose state being in the downtown area of San Jose, their downtown might be miserable as well, not as much as fresno because a lot of white collar jobs are in downtown SJ so much more money flowing, but it wouldnt work as well as it does.
From what I've seen so far Fresno's plans for downtown is rehabilitate old buildings and turn them into affordable/low income housing? It will clean up more parts of fresno but it wont really help downtown reach that new level of being proud of it to want to show visitors and tourist------unless theres a big event there.
Lets scratch the idea of tech jobs or more white collar jobs being in downtown. That clearly isnt happening anytime soon. Restauranteurs and small business owners probably have to think twice before opening because many days its dead there and can they sustain especially against the already popular places that have been surviving in downtown. There needs to be something that constantly brings people to downtown and not just on special occasions. Big concerts and events happen all the way in Savemart center. The grizzlies are meh.
The only realistic thing I can see is opening a big anchor store that the region doesnt have but people have longed for: an IKEA. Look what it did to east palo alto. It will flood people around the area, and many will want to see whats around and stimulate the downtown area. But as we know Ikea is very strict on potential new stores. Maybe a new outlet shopping center like the Gilroy Outlets/Folsom Outlets with brand name stores because the one in Tulare SUCKS. Until something big like that happens, downtown Fresno will continue to stay the same: more bars and beer places to open then close, open then close, along with small businesses that do the same, rehab buildings for low income housing etc.
Last edited by Moddedintegra56; 03-30-2022 at 10:50 AM..
The story of Fresno right there. Embarrassing that locals cant recommend or hesitate to go to downtown. That should be the goto for visitors/tourists but we simply cant because it leaves a sour and negative taste for them and leaves them with an impression of Fresno that isnt good and may strengthen the already negative stigma Fresno they may had even before stepping foot here.
When there is a big event there, it does give a glimmer of hope and what could be. But when there isnt one, its just sad and it's constant "there is so much potential here".
I feel there simply isnt a diverse income level of residents in and around downtown. I believe there is data around that show around the area is mostly low income residents. Unless there is a reason for people to be in downtown they wont, and those with money are up north or in clovis. With a lack of white collar and higher paying jobs around downtown, there is no incentive for anyone to live close by downtown too.
In contrast while sac, there are a lot of things catered for tourist. It's usually a thing to bring visitors to downtown sac. OBviously the state capitol, old sac, walk over the bridge, visiting an NBA stadium, etc.
If it wasnt for SJ sharks, and san jose state being in the downtown area of San Jose, their downtown might be miserable as well, not as much as fresno because a lot of white collar jobs are in downtown SJ so much more money flowing, but it wouldnt work as well as it does.
From what I've seen so far Fresno's plans for downtown is rehabilitate old buildings and turn them into affordable/low income housing? It will clean up more parts of fresno but it wont really help downtown reach that new level of being proud of it to want to show visitors and tourist------unless theres a big event there.
Lets scratch the idea of tech jobs or more white collar jobs being in downtown. That clearly isnt happening anytime soon. Restauranteurs and small business owners probably have to think twice before opening because many days its dead there and can they sustain especially against the already popular places that have been surviving in downtown. There needs to be something that constantly brings people to downtown and not just on special occasions. Big concerts and events happen all the way in Savemart center. The grizzlies are meh.
The only realistic thing I can see is opening a big anchor store that the region doesnt have but people have longed for: an IKEA. Look what it did to east palo alto. It will flood people around the area, and many will want to see whats around and stimulate the downtown area. But as we know Ikea is very strict on potential new stores. Maybe a new outlet shopping center like the Gilroy Outlets/Folsom Outlets with brand name stores because the one in Tulare SUCKS. Until something big like that happens, downtown Fresno will continue to stay the same: more bars and beer places to open then close, open then close, along with small businesses that do the same, rehab buildings for low income housing etc.
Eh, bars are fine. People love them and don't have a problem visiting places they would usually ignore to go drinking. More money into bars would be a good thing.
Restaurant scene in downtown Fresno is meh, and will stay meh until more people live there. Hsr will be vital to getting more people to live downtown.
South Fresno still has the stigma of 90s Fresno attached to it. Lots of people literally believe some methhead is going to attack you the first minute you leave your car. Perception isn't close to reality.
South fresno will stay anemic until the city fixes its crime reputation and gentrifies more neighborhoods.
Downtown sj is arguably more embarrassing than dt Fresno. Almost as dead and it's 10x wealthier - makes no sense
Sac has had decent city planning since the early 90s. They started gentrifying decades ago. Did you know sac has more gentrified neighborhoods than Los Angeles? Only issue I have with sac are the homeless. At Least fresnos stay out of your way. and there are more gated neighborhoods to keep them at bay.
Last edited by dontbelievehim; 03-30-2022 at 12:25 PM..
Eh, bars are fine. People love them and don't have a problem visiting places they would usually ignore to go drinking. More money into bars would be a good thing.
Restaurant scene in downtown Fresno is meh, and will stay meh until more people live there. Hsr will be vital to getting more people to live downtown.
South Fresno still has the stigma of 90s Fresno attached to it. Lots of people literally believe some methhead is going to attack you the first minute you leave your car. Perception isn't close to reality.
South fresno will stay anemic until the city fixes its crime reputation and gentrifies more neighborhoods.
Downtown sj is arguably more embarrassing than dt Fresno. Almost as dead and it's 10x wealthier - makes no sense
Sac has had decent city planning since the early 90s. They started gentrifying decades ago. Did you know sac has more gentrified neighborhoods than Los Angeles? Only issue I have with sac are the homeless. At Least fresnos stay out of your way. and there are more gated neighborhoods to keep them at bay.
There is some downtown fresno partnership group and they clearly should realize the things we are talking about here. They have great ideas but it can't seem to sustain and only during big events does it seem like what they are pushing for works.
I do agree HSR will help boost the downtown economy. The station will be right there so that should be the natural thing to happen.
as for downtown San Jose, for the 3rd biggest city in California, yea the downtown is meh, but what it does have is working because there is just more going on throughout the year. SJ Sharks, christmas in the park during holidays, san jose state campus is there, and the days inbetween has white collar jobs in more abundance so people are in and around downtown, spending money and helping the local businesses there thrive. It's outskirts also isnt scary like Fresno's-notable around the chinatown area with parts looking like a mini skid row. SJ homeless has increased but its nothing close to fresno's, but maybe because most areas are already developed and the homeless have better places to hide where as in downtown fresno a lot of open spaces. So I wouldn't call downtown sj as more embarrassing, it just should be much better for the city of it's size and wealth.
With both SJ and SAC downtown areas, both areas outskirts neighborhoods are considered decent areas. In downtown san jose, east of it you have naglee park neighborhood and north side san jose, then to the west you are heading into santa clara which is a pretty regarded city. In sac you got mid town, land park. Around downtown fresno lets face it, they aren't highly regarded neighborhoods.
I dont see downtown fresno really reaching new heights until several things happen. Gentrification of surrounding neighborhoods, something that consistently brings people in to spend money in downtown, more sights and attractions, etc. Until then, it will just be stuck on a plateau.
There is some downtown fresno partnership group and they clearly should realize the things we are talking about here. They have great ideas but it can't seem to sustain and only during big events does it seem like what they are pushing for works.
I do agree HSR will help boost the downtown economy. The station will be right there so that should be the natural thing to happen.
as for downtown San Jose, for the 3rd biggest city in California, yea the downtown is meh, but what it does have is working because there is just more going on throughout the year. SJ Sharks, christmas in the park during holidays, san jose state campus is there, and the days inbetween has white collar jobs in more abundance so people are in and around downtown, spending money and helping the local businesses there thrive. It's outskirts also isnt scary like Fresno's-notable around the chinatown area with parts looking like a mini skid row. SJ homeless has increased but its nothing close to fresno's, but maybe because most areas are already developed and the homeless have better places to hide where as in downtown fresno a lot of open spaces. So I wouldn't call downtown sj as more embarrassing, it just should be much better for the city of it's size and wealth.
With both SJ and SAC downtown areas, both areas outskirts neighborhoods are considered decent areas. In downtown san jose, east of it you have naglee park neighborhood and north side san jose, then to the west you are heading into santa clara which is a pretty regarded city. In sac you got mid town, land park. Around downtown fresno lets face it, they aren't highly regarded neighborhoods.
I dont see downtown fresno really reaching new heights until several things happen. Gentrification of surrounding neighborhoods, something that consistently brings people in to spend money in downtown, more sights and attractions, etc. Until then, it will just be stuck on a plateau.
Tower district is already getting gentrified. The city is going to fix up all the messed up side walks, plant trees, remove graffiti, clean up trash, etc. It'll look nice after they do more infill projects. Give it a couple of years, you'll notice a difference.
Revitalizing a downtown is more magic than chemistry. Nobody has truly figured it out. Cities keep trying different things, but most keep failing. . The only thing people are certain on is that housing is a big boost to a downtowns economy/vibrancy. Don't expect big improvements until they build more housing. Hsr is the citys best tool to bring new housing.
Last edited by dontbelievehim; 03-30-2022 at 11:18 PM..
ACLU and the city of Fresno are about to butt heads over the homeless this year. Dyer wants every encampment removed asap. He's going to use every tool in his toolbelt to accomplish this. I'll update whenever something new happens.
Chim, just letting you know that Woodward Park wouldn't be the worst thing to visit in town. I told ya earlier not to visit, but i now think that was a bad suggestion.
Woodward isn't really special but it's very large(almost 2x land park), usually clean, and VERY safe. Car break ins are like the worst you have worry about, but thats an issue in every part of California. Woodward is one of the few large city parks in California without any homeless (they tried to take it over a few years back, but got kicked out!) So if a clean park interests you, give it a go.
The old Arthur's toy store(Manchester mall area) is going to be turned into temporary housing after it gets remodeled. Unsure if it becomes mixed use housing.
"The city-owned garage is adjacent to the privately-owned former Gottschalks building. That building has been vacant for decades and is currently owned by a Southern California family.
Local developer Will Dyck previously told GV Wire he is partnering with the old Gottschalks owner to purchase the Spiral Garage and convert it into commercial and residential space."
More housing downtown?
Fresno aquarium manager got interviewed recently. Nothing but lame excuses from him. It's a dead project as long as he's running the show.
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