Native Floridian - Looking to buy land for a small family ranch around Cody - Clark - Powell, Wyoming (Cheyenne: rental car, rental)
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Like the subject implies looking to buy land around Clark / Cody / Powell, Wyoming for a small family ranch / future home.
Are you seeking a "small ranch" lifestyle, with livestock & horses as a "gentleman's ranch", or are you seeking a financially productive ranching operation?
It's night and day between the two types of operations, and the size/scale of productive land/infrastructure/facilities/equipment/potential need for hired help (think in terms of vet/well-being care, herding & loading up or receiving livestock, branding, shearing, legal fencing install/maintenance/repair, stock tank waterers supply/maintenance/winter operation, etc).
It's one thing to keep a few horses, sheep, hogs, poultry for one's own enjoyment and small-scale production ... but it is costly to do so. You will be buying feed & hay for all these ventures ... and you'll still need a pick-up truck, trailers, and likely a small utility tractor with attachments for your facilities upkeep. You'll be supporting this "lifestyle" to achieve the benefits that may come from your own food production.
I read it’s windy up in Clark but I never felt extreme wind in Cody or Greybull which is where I stayed last time.
You can look up the "wind energy density charts" for the area to get a general idea of winds in the area, but specific sites will have a lot of variance. Local topography can create much stronger winds with intense gusts far in excess of the general forecast winds in an area.
IMO, it is imperative that you check out the wind specifics of any site/land parcel under consideration before making an offer on it.
Many folks from lower elevations/low wind energy density areas don't realize how significant a factor in daily life the winds in this area can be for much of a year. It's not unusual for this area to have winds/gusts that would be hurricane force winds in FL, a major event there ... but a "normal" event in this area. FWIW, we've had extensive C-D threads in years past about the winds at this locale. Might be worth your time to use the search function for more insights about this aspect of living here.
Any tips on buying land to build on? Things to look for and look out for? I’ve only been looking at land with running streams, rivers or water sources nearby.
Know in advance that ALL WATER (ground or surface) in the State of Wyoming is "owned" by the State and the State Engineer's office is the controlling agency to issue permits for the use of the water. As a rural property owner and potential "rancher", you will have two concerns about any land parcel:
1) availability of potable water for your residence ... likely a well, limited to domestic use at a permitted production rate of no more than 16 GPM. If you're buying an existing facility, well tests for quality and quantity of water are in order; if you're buying raw land, then best to check with the local well drillers about their take on the likelihood of water on the prospective building site area re: cost of the successful well, production rate, and potability/contaminants of the water.
2). Livestock require water, many gallons per day per head. What will be the source of this water? your domestic well may suffice for a small number of livestock, but if you're looking at a larger operation, you'll need a "livestock" well permitted from the State Engineer, a means of delivery to your livestock, and a means of stock tanks and keeping them clear during the cold weather months. While you may have access to surface water on your parcel, it is imperative that you know in advance what the year-round availability of the water may be and it's quality for livestock consumption ... and what "water rights for livestock use" you may have from that water source. Do not assume that any surface water you see on your parcel is available to you for any purpose whatsoever ... just because it's there on your property does not confer rights to use the water for any beneficial purpose whatsoever. Check this out with the State Engineer's office and/or the local "ditch rider" (State Engineer's office field rep) so you know for sure what you're buying.
And again, I must emphasize that your selected real estate agent is not to be trusted on this major detail. Only the State Engineer's office KNOWS the water rights.
As well, do not rely upon the representations of a "friendly" prospective neighbor regarding surface water.
A "case in point" ... I purchased a parcel of land in Wyoming with the 3rd most senior surface water irrigation rights on the stream that went through my property. I verified that the water right was established and would be specified as part of the Deed of Trust/Sales Agreement as part of my purchase (along with the owned mineral/gas/oil rights ... an important detail to specify in Wyoming real estate land contracts). Unfortunately, none of my new neighbors ... which included an upstream rancher ... told me about a long-standing "gentleman's agreement" that an upstream family had been "taking" water from the creek for generations to irrigate a pasture and also fill a remote 3-acre pond that they used to water their livestock. The way they'd worked it since 1890 was the upstream family would breach the delivery ditch running to my land and the prior landowners of my land wouldn't complain to the State Engineer/ditch rider ... allowing the upstream family to take all the water they wanted for days (usually at a rate of over 10 cfs, that's a lot of water!) ... water to which they had no permit or right to use ... before repairing the ditch they'd breached.
This came at the loss of use of that water to irrigate my hayfields, which was frequently a critical issue during the growing season. I filed a complaint with the Sheriff's office, who verified the theft of the resource and the folks were required to appear in court. The judge let them off with a warning and a nominal payment to me for the loss (and a warning that if he saw them in court for the same offense again, they'd get the suspended jail time and more jail time for the repeat offense) ... but the reaction of the upstream neighbor was shock and indignation that I'd made the complaint at all. 4-generations of the family had relied upon that stolen water each year for their cattle operation, and they were insulted that I would be upset that they were stealing my water. They actually asked me why I hadn't come to them first to discuss the water situation and arrange my irrigation schedule to accommodate their water theft ... or, excuse me ... their "need to water the cows".
Be aware that a water right holder cannot sell, assign, loan, gift, or in any way transfer their water to another user. The only thing you can do with your water right is put the water to the permitted beneficial use or allow it to remain in the State of Wyoming system for other permit holders to use in accordance with their water right. Also, consider that a permitted water right does not mean that the water will be available in a given year or timeframe. Droughts can dry up creeks and/or sub-surface water sources. Senior water right holders can dry up your junior water right source in their use of their water right ... again, drought years can aggravate this situation, and the senior water right holder may be upstream or downstream from your property. This is a major concern when you anticipate a water use at your property and you need as much information as can possibly be obtained from all sources ... Engineer, Ditch Rider, neighbors, well drilling companies ... as possible to make an informed decision about what it is you're really buying.
Good luck in your search for a parcel to develop for your ranch.
PS: Do visit prospective areas in the winter months, at least several times ... Nov through May. What appears to be a gorgeous property during June-September may be something quite different during the winter.
PPS: There's been many C-D thread addressing your specific concerns already posted. May I humbly suggest that you avail yourself of some hours of research that may be of value in your search?
I read it’s windy up in Clark but I never felt extreme wind in Cody or Greybull which is where I stayed last time.
You can look up the "wind energy density charts" for the area to get a general idea of winds in the area, but specific sites will have a lot of variance. Local topography can create much stronger winds with intense gusts far in excess of the general forecast winds in an area.
IMO, it is imperative that you check out the wind specifics of any site/land parcel under consideration before making an offer on it.
Many folks from lower elevations/low wind energy density areas don't realize how significant a factor in daily life the winds in this area can be for much of a year. It's not unusual for this area to have winds/gusts that would be hurricane force winds in FL, a major event there ... but a "normal" event in this area. FWIW, we've had extensive C-D threads in years past about the winds at this locale. Might be worth your time to use the search function for more insights about this aspect of living here.
Re: a fire a few months ago in Clark:
"Owens said winds on the night of the Nov 15 fire reached 140mph with unofficial reports made of 156 mph at the top of Grove Creek. The quickly accelerating growth of the fire created incredibly hot temperatures within the blaze, traveling in an unpredictable path due to rapid changes in wind direction".
I don't know him well but I do know the poor man who lost his wife in this fire. He's a retired cop, a volunteer fire fighter out in Clark, and a good number of years ago he is the same man who had to be life flighted to Billings after his jaw was ripped off by a grizz on his own property out in Clark. The man has been through hell and it hurts my heart.
Most Ranches in the Big Horn Basin are an irrigated Hay, grain, sugar beet, Farm as a base property with attached BLM and Forest Service grazing permits. As is most of the central, western and southern Wyoming. You find more just private land Ranches, in NE and SE Wyoming.
These are great comments so far. I'll just add a few thoughts. Cody can be really windy any time of year. I was there the middle of the summer a few years ago and the wind hit 85mph. If you or your family can't stand high wind, maybe Wyoming isn't for you. My wife jokes that if we're ever missing any outdoor furniture, we should make a trip to South Dakota to look for it.
Of the areas you described, I suggest you look at Clark, which has great views looking up at the Beartooth Plateau (drive up the Morrison Jeep Road if you have the right vehicle and are feeling lucky that day). Or look at the South Fork near Cody. If you go far out that road toward Valley, you get close to surrounding wilderness areas and some beautiful land. I think that folks would be more stand-offish in Clark and more agreeable to outsiders in Cody.
We left Miami in 63 and never, ever considered moving back. Florida plates have been a red flag on I95 for decades...now, much more common and you see them all over. Buying land to ranch and build...sounds like you are looking to lose your shirt. Wyoming is nicer than AZ in many regards...you don't get that pervasive underachievement/we're poor vibe for one thing..Always crap wages in northern AZ, too. Mormonville, as well.
PaleRider: Have you thought of any other areas that might have a bit more water, but still have a similar feel to Wyoming. I would suggest areas surrounding Dillon, MT., which is a nice valley town with a small University, and smaller towns mainly north and east. Not nearly as expensive as the Bozeman area. Just a thought and might be worth investigating. Five hours from Cody, but only that far of a drive because you can't drive straight between them.
yada, yada, yada. $5k for scrubland - that’s what most of the state is. That white stuff on the shoreline of Alkali lake isn’t sand.
You're just going there to avoid paying taxes. Granted WY has one of the lowest property taxes in the country, but it also has a checkerboard of state and federal land that outside of Alaska and Nevada no other states have. Get a copy of a backcountry map at the sporting goods store - there's one for every state. DeLorme publishing.
No one goes to live in Wyoming for the great healthcare. A very good friend of mine sold his biz in Cody and moved to Bigfork, MT on his doctors advice. He had lived and worked in Cody almost all his life. Going to Montana probably saved his life.
The majority only go for the summer/fall beauty, hunting and tax avoidance. Down the road that may change - but not now.
As for being pulled over in WY - I have been many times with FL, GA, NC, TN, MT and even WY plates. Was I speeding? Sometimes - never argued it.
As to Clark - we looked at it in the 70s and again twenty years later - if you like rocks and rattlesnakes this is the place for you! Ranches are being busted up and sold off. Whenever you find cottonwood trees you'll find water. The only ones I found were on the river, a couple on creeks in the area. Otherwise you need to drill 500-800ft and most times you'll miss it.
Personally if I hadn't settled and raised a family in Wyoming, I would have picked western Montana. If Wy engineers knew how much water there was up there, they'd have run a pipeline. Plenty or water for everyone, animals and crops. It's not as windy - which means it doesn't dry out your skin as quickly. But it's frequently overcast and the elevation is lower. Snow doesn't get blown away. The Thanksgiving snow is still on the ground on Mother's Day.
yada, yada, yada. $5k for scrubland - that’s what most of the state is. That white stuff on the shoreline of Alkali lake isn’t sand.
You're just going there to avoid paying taxes. Granted WY has one of the lowest property taxes in the country, but it also has a checkerboard of state and federal land that outside of Alaska and Nevada no other states have. Get a copy of a backcountry map at the sporting goods store - there's one for every state. DeLorme publishing.
No one goes to live in Wyoming for the great healthcare. A very good friend of mine sold his biz in Cody and moved to Bigfork, MT on his doctors advice. He had lived and worked in Cody almost all his life. Going to Montana probably saved his life.
The majority only go for the summer/fall beauty, hunting and tax avoidance. Down the road that may change - but not now.
As for being pulled over in WY - I have been many times with FL, GA, NC, TN, MT and even WY plates. Was I speeding? Sometimes - never argued it.
As to Clark - we looked at it in the 70s and again twenty years later - if you like rocks and rattlesnakes this is the place for you! Ranches are being busted up and sold off. Whenever you find cottonwood trees you'll find water. The only ones I found were on the river, a couple on creeks in the area. Otherwise you need to drill 500-800ft and most times you'll miss it.
Personally if I hadn't settled and raised a family in Wyoming, I would have picked western Montana. If Wy engineers knew how much water there was up there, they'd have run a pipeline. Plenty or water for everyone, animals and crops. It's not as windy - which means it doesn't dry out your skin as quickly. But it's frequently overcast and the elevation is lower. Snow doesn't get blown away. The Thanksgiving snow is still on the ground on Mother's Day.
Just my two cents
Good luck.
“ You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to OneDawg again.”
Like the subject implies looking to buy land around Clark / Cody / Powell, Wyoming for a small family ranch / future home.
I’m tired of Florida, our Governor is great but the liberals moving down here, raising the cost of living and voting for the exact same thing they left behind in New York is driving me insane. A 4/5 bedroom house in Miami around my childhood neighborhood used to go for $350,000-$500,000 and now they’ve driven the prices up to almost $800,000 it’s ridiculous.
I went to Wyoming about 2-3 summers ago on a cross country road trip with my wife and my daughter and we fell in love with the natural beauty of the state and the fact that it’s desolate. We’ve visited every summer ever since. I used to ranch on my fathers ranch in Northern Arizona and I’d love to give my kids that experience but instead of Arizona, in Wyoming and build something I can pass down to my grandchildren. So this is a project I’ll be working on for the next 5-6 years before I make my move from Florida.
Now I just have questions for the locals.
I’ve read on other posts that there is “cliqueyness” between residents of Cody and Powell. I did kind of feel that vibe when I was in Cody, I haven’t visited Powell just yet. Is the town welcoming of outsiders? I know Cody and Wyoming isn’t welcoming to those who want to change the state and I sure don’t, if I move I want keep Wyoming the way it is and yes I’m a registered Republican / Conservative big on guns, hunting, ranching. God, Family and Country.
The reason I also ask and maybe it’s because of my Florida plates but I was pulled over by Wyoming State Troopers and Park County Sheriffs on each of my trips and it seemed like curiosity every single time.
Would fellow ranchers be welcoming of another rancher? Especially one from out of state?
I read it’s windy up in Clark but I never felt extreme wind in Cody or Greybull which is where I stayed last time.
Any tips on buying land to build on? Things to look for and look out for? I’ve only been looking at land with running streams, rivers or water sources nearby.
I really appreciate everyone who takes time to answer. God bless.
I don't know if I would call it cliquiness so much as being standoffish. You may say you want to keep Wyoming the way it is but be prepared to show that. Wyomingites are often suspicious of outsiders (for various reasons) and you're moving from "back east" which is going to be seen as liberal. Also be aware that if you move to an area like this there are people who have lived there for generations and don't have much use for new people (like any rural area, not at all unique to Wyoming). Gaining acceptance will be tough.
Also, you fell in love with Wyoming on vacation in the summer. Once you start working anywhere it ceases to be the relaxing place you saw on vacations. Yes, you can still do the activities you did while on vacation, but it's going to be different. The scenery will become just as much of a backdrop as your current surroundings.
Most importantly, if you think you want to live there it is imperative you visit for a week or so in the winter. Visit about January or February. Check out the rural property you have your eyes on. What's it like during the winter? If you can, get yourself a VRBO or Air BnB and live there for a week. Go about your daily schedule as if you were living there. Go shopping at the grocery store, go "home" and make some meals, watch TV, act like you're back home in Florida. See if the novelty is still there. Stay at least through one whole weekend and see if they have the kinds of activities you like. You're likely in for a lot of culture shock (not a bad thing, just something to be aware of).
My humble and possibly offensive advice.
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