New Mexico to Wyoming (Cheyenne, Casper: real estate, 2014, lease)
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Hello. I have been on different forums, in the past, and have found the people here to be extremely helpful. My husband and I, (69 & 63), are seriously considering making the move to Wyoming. Our health is pretty good, and we can handle a winter or two. We do have a small place in Maine. Nothing fancy, but does well for us. We have been up into Wyoming, through Lander, Cody, and Cheyenne.
What we would be looking for:
- access to good health care, roughly an hour or so away, max.
- shooting range for my husband
- an area on the property for reloading and firearms
- put up a 40 foot HAM antenna tower...so frequency coverage would be key
- grocery stores, etc., roughly an hour or so away, max.
- ability to have a small garden plot
- we’re not real social, but like to meet people and make a friend or two
- budget...up to $250,000, but don’t have to go that high
- we’ve been retired for some years, now.
I think that is a start. We’d like to go for a small to mid-size town. We’re hoping to come up towards the end of March. Sheridan, Sundance & Casper are on our list. We’re doing some more research, and trying to fill in our knowledge gaps.
Any ideas, points of consideration, suggestions, would definitely be welcome.
Again...I’d like to thank the folks who have helped me in the previous few years, on different forums, with their knowledge and suggestions.
Always happy to help steer someone in the right direction.... I have a few questions, however, just to clarify your desires.
1) I assume you're not looking for a shooting range on your property. Are you just wanting an outside range for rifles, etc.?
2) This area "on the property for reloading and firearms..." You don't want this in the house? How about a garage? I don't know anyone who doesn't store their firearms in their house, and that's where most everyone I know of does their reloading. Excuse me for the questions, but I've never done reloading myself.
3) What size towns do you consider small or medium sized? Wyominites might have a different idea than you do as to what constitutes a medium sized town. Casper, for example, is one of the two largest cities in the state, just to give you an idea. I was thinking that Wyoming communities are counted as cities when their populations reach 5,000, but I see a few that are called cities with fewer residents, such as Kemmerer with a population of ~2,500. Maybe it's because it's also a county seat. Either way, it doesn't take much for a town to officially be a "city" in our fair state.
I'm thinking we have a HAM operator from Sheridan as a regular contributor to this board. Hopefully I'm remembering correctly and he can answer some of your questions about HAM antennas.
I'll hold off on making any suggestions until I know we're on the same page for sizes.
An outside shooting range for rifles, within driving distance. Reloading in the house/basement is fine. He does enjoy spreading things out, though. (Hence a good piece of land.)
As for town size...10 - 20,000. We are trying to narrow it down, with research. But, nothing does that better than those living in the state. If a town has 7683 people, like Lander, and is a good fit...so be it! A dear friend of mine used to live in Newcastle and liked the proximity to South Dakota. She was born in Deadwood and passed away a few years ago. I have a cousin that goes to Greybull, every year. Not quite 2000 people there.
My concern is accessibility to good health care, as we age. And, I’d like to grow a few things outside and in a greenhouse. I’m a plant person.
Vehicle-wise, we have a 2000 Durango and a 2014 3500 Ram Truck.
Again, we’re flexible, and need to narrow choices down. Any help you can give is appreciated. Thank you!
Sundance is small but not far from Spearfish SD or Gillette.
Sheridan might be the more expensive place for housing. Buffalo is somewhat cheaper.
East of Casper, you might look at Douglas.
I dunno if the mountains west of Sheridan or Lander would have a major impact on ham radio reception but might want to consider that. Out east might have better receptivity from the west?
I don't think you'll run into any problems finding a shooting range nearby, especially not if you end up in a town of 10-20K. Also, most of Wyoming is federal land, and I think if you can find an isolated piece of BLM land you can put up a target and shoot away. Just be careful where you're shooting, i.e., shoot into a hill without people, livestock or wild game. But shooting ranges are popular in Wyoming, and I think no matter where you go, you'll find a place where you can shoot.
I keep seeing that 40' antenna in your wants, and I feel like you might need to be in a rural subdivision. Help HAM people!
Jackson/Jackson Hole is expensive. Your $250K wouldn't go far there, so you can likely cross it off your list. The rest of Wyoming is more reasonable, for the most part.
The front range of the Bighorns from Buffalo to Dayton/Ranchester is all pretty nice with reasonable prices. Some of that area will have inflated prices, such as Story and Big Horn, but even they aren't too expensive. Sheridan has a good hospital, as does Gillette an hour east of Buffalo, and if your medical needs go beyond what they offer, Casper (two hours south of Buffalo) or Billings (a couple hours north) offer more. Otherwise, it's Denver. Some might check their insurance and make sure medical ambulances are covered. It's not unusual to fly patients out to Casper or Denver. Gillette's hospital wanted to fly my late wife to Casper when she was in need of more care than they could offer. Wouldn't you know, it was one of the rare times weather was so bad that not even a helicopter could land. (It wouldn't have helped anyway, but it does make you think.)
So that would be high on my list of areas for you to check: Buffalo, Story, Big Horn, Sheridan, Ranchester and Dayton. Sheridan is the only one with a population over 5,000, but the others might be worth a look. Buffalo is the only one of those more than 15-20 minutes out of Sheridan. (It's about 30 minutes out.)
Sundance is tiny in comparison, as is Newcastle and anything else east of Gillette but still in Wyoming. And Casper is 55K or so, way bigger than you were looking for, and it has nothing in particular in its favor.
You did mention Lander. To me, it's one of the nicest little towns in Wyoming. But it's remote -- two hours from civilization.
Others will have more suggestions, but I'd urge you to investigate Sheridan and the other smaller towns along the front range of the Bighorns that I mentioned.
You might also want to take a look at Gillette. It's bigger than you want at 32K, but it doesn't seem that big. What I like most about it is its proximity to both the Big Horns (an hour west) and the Black Hills (an hour east). That and it's a nice town, and it's experiencing somewhat of a buyer's market with its homes.
How much land do you want and what are your housing expectations? In some parts of the state you might be kindve limited on 250k. I believe the Eastern part of the state is less expensive (Douglas, Torrington, Wheatland)
And just an FYI about many of the smaller towns in the northwest region of the state...you will find a large percentage of the communities have ties to the Mormon church. Not saying good or bad but something to be aware of
How much land do you want and what are your housing expectations? In some parts of the state you might be kindve limited on 250k. I believe the Eastern part of the state is less expensive (Douglas, Torrington, Wheatland)
And just an FYI about many of the smaller towns in the northwest region of the state...you will find a large percentage of the communities have ties to the Mormon church. Not saying good or bad but something to be aware of
I'd like to ask in what part of Maine your present place is, and if that is the type of place you want in WY. (Of course, finding ocean front like on the ME coast is going to be a bit difficult LOL)
As far as the ham tower, most of the areas you mention are open around. The Sheridan area has the Big Horns to the west, but you're not really close, under the lee of the mountain so to speak. Lander and Riverton are relatively flat, with the mountains some miles away so I would not worry over that. It's going to more come down to the exact local terrain and trying to find a house that is not in a canyon.
Your usual matter for the ham tower is going to be an covenants if you settle in a subdivison. That is not any different than anywhere else, IMHO. A 40' tower is not a big one.
BTW, the winter winds in and around Capser, Cheyenne, Laramie, and much of the middle-eastern to middle-southern part of WY can be quite FIERCE. That part of WY in #1 in the USA for wind energy. 20-60 MPH winds are not uncommon in winter. There are different spots that seems to be relatively calm, like the Lander-Riverton areas, Sheridan, Cody (I think). Look at this link; enjoy the first pix, and then look at the 2 following graphs in this paper, and that will give you an idea of the high- and low-wind areas. Wyoming Climate Atlas
EVERY city in WY is small compared to Albuquerque! Hence the comments on places like Sundance. Would you want a town as small at 1000? Or were you thinking more like 10,000? That would help narrow things down. As said, for $250k, you're probably going to have to go to a smaller town, more out of the way.
Were you thinking of an outdoor shooting range? If outdoor, then you'll likely have to stick near the National Forests, or other federal lands. I don't know the rules for BLM land but it may be same as for the non-wilderness NF's in much of the west, where you can go out and shoot while observing some commonsense rules.
nm9stheham wrote: "
BTW, the winter winds in and around Capser, Cheyenne, Laramie, and much of the middle-eastern to middle-southern part of WY can be quite FIERCE. That part of WY in #1 in the USA for wind energy. 20-60 MPH winds are not uncommon in winter. There are different spots that seems to be relatively calm, like the Lander-Riverton areas, Sheridan, Cody (I think)"
Two observations: 1) Cody winds are just as fierce as the Casper/Cheyenne/Laramie winds (as shown on the referenced charts), and 2) the fierce winds are not limited to the winter months. (and it's not uncommon for localized wintertime and summertime gusts to exceed 100 mph in the SE and SCentral Wyoming areas)
Outdoor shooting is not limited to Federal Lands. Every county in Wyoming has "State School Sections", composed of 2 sections (that's 640 acres, 1 sq mile) of public lands in every township. There's one near our ranch which is frequently used by shooters to sight-in every year. They park along the county road frontage and hike in a hundred yards or so to set up their shooting position with their targets posted 100-200-300 yards away with a safe backstop of a rise in the terrain. They have a reasonably clear view of approaching livestock or people in the area. There's a lease on the land which the holder uses for seasonal winter livestock grazing, a few months out of the year. Otherwise, the land is pretty much unused except for limited recreation, such as a bit of hiking or horseback trail riding by a few people. As well, this is a common outdoor activity in our county open space parkland, although more typically handgun shooters with targets set up at 50-100'. Of course, common sense about shooting safety applies in setting up these situations and cleaning up after oneself is a given.
Depending upon where the OP settles, HOA controlled developments may regulate outside structures such as Ham radio antennas and greenhouses.
Greenhouses generally need to be sited and constructed to deal with strong gusty winds. Typically, "tunnel" greenhouses are built here. Most "kits" for them, such as from FarmTek, are not adequately constructed for the gusts. You'll need to consider heavier reinforced coverings and more structure, especially when it comes to rollup sides and zippered access. Drip feed watering systems are almost a necessity for water conservation and irrigation success, best controlled on a timer. What you can achieve is better control of ambient temperatures and plant sheltering in the greenhouse that may extend a growing season for some items by a couple of months. For the most part, it's pretty futile and expensive to use any supplemental heating in Wyoming vege garden greenhouses. We start our seeds in smaller tunnel areas enclosed within the main greenhouse structure to maximize the solar heat uptake and soil temperature.
Healthcare depends greatly upon your current and anticipated needs. I recently had a long visit with a newly retired thoracic/cardio surgeon formerly based in Cheyenne, and he was most emphatic that the major medical hospital services in Wyoming were not a place he'd go to for any major surgery, if possible. The "best" hospitals in Wyoming were, in his opinion, far below the capabilities/performance of adjacent major medical areas, such as Denver or SLC. He chose retirement because the local hospital wasn't giving him the professional support & patient care he deemed necessary for his work, including the departure of the better cardiologists from the area leaving a low level of competency in the area. (that includes the recent departure of my cardiologist from the local practice; and I've personally had some poor medical services in two other specialty areas from Cheyenne area medical practices which confirm for me the medical community problems here. Suffice to say that the MD's involved placed billable income as a priority over patient care; it turned out after some less-than-satisfactory outcomes that they knew that the facilities and care they could provide were wholly inadequate compared to specialists outside the area who could properly take care of the recurring surgical problem I was experiencing at their hands. I found out how bad the treatment was after 5 surgical attempts by the local GI MD when he moved out of the area and he advised me to consult with a buddy of his in Denver who turned out to have the advanced equipment/techniques that solved my problem on the very first attempt. The Denver doc's comment was "why didn't he refer you to me after the first or second surgery?") IMO, if you're facing medical issues requiring specialist level medical care and support, you may want to put any inquiry about medical services and accessibility #1 on your relocation priorities. Distances around Wyoming can be vast and the travel time can be a big factor, especially if you choose a remote small town location. Even Cheyenne to Denver is the better part of 3 hours in good weather/dry roads if you're heading to Aurora or some of the other outlying area medical community centers.
In all candor, if high quality medical specialty services are a priority for you requiring ongoing access, residency in Wyoming may be problematic for you. Consider that travel during inclement months may take much longer, if the roads are reasonably accessible, than clear weather months. Why am I focusing on this aspect of your wish list, OP? Because you made it your #1 concern in your original post … and specified a "1 hour" access to this. The quality and access to even routine care here in Wyoming doesn't hold a candle to what you've got access to in Albq. When folk here talk about a "good" medical community/hospital here in Wyoming, it's a relative positioning compared to the places here with a dearth of virtually any medical services. It's a deal-killer for virtually all of Wyoming, sorry. Routine well care? that's a different facet of medical care here … there are some OK MD's around the state, although I'm seeing more and more of them using NP's rather than the doc as the first line of care.
PS: your $250K housing budget is woefully inadequate for most of Wyoming's desirable places to live, especially if you desire any acreage. I've recently been looking in the Saratoga, Powell, Sheridan, and Lander areas for a "new" 2nd home, having recently sold out of my long term investment SFH's in a Colorado high profile resort/ski town (and now sitting on a pile of cash to invest for a recreational access with nearby airstrip 2nd home property). Not looking for anything "too big" or "too fancy", a modest but reasonably well constructed 2bd/2ba w/2-car garage not needing extensive renovation has not been available for that low a cost. I've looked at more than a few houses at that price range that needed considerable work and the sellers were simply on a "fishing expedition". One house I looked at recently (with fresh paint, carpeting, roof, and new stainless steel kitchen appliances) was in such awful condition that the low $200's price came down to $195K, and just appeared yesterday with another price reduction to $125K. I've looked at several in the "old town" area of Saratoga that were priced under $200K; every one of them had serious defects AND was located in a mixed commercial/mobile home/SFH use area. Yes, many of those houses were located next door to a commercial or industrial biz lot, and next to a real dump of a mobile home. Zoning apparently didn't protect local home values there, and this isn't uncommon in many older Wyoming small communities. Yes, you can find houses in small towns in Wyoming for $250K … but they will not meet your other requirements, they're simply a "roof over your head". Rural Wyoming is not an inexpensive place to live when you factor in COL, transportation, recreation, entertainment, medical, insurance, groceries, etc.
FWIW, you may want to spend some time on Zillow or comparable websites showing real estate offerings in the desirable areas of interest to you here which could be revealing about the RE marketplace here.
Park County, bighorn county parts of hot springs county meet your list.
also, invest in the Air Med service. The Air Med ( helicopter) care network is essential because you won't always be at home when you need to be flown from YNP or the middle of the beartooths to bozeman or billings ( I've done it three times, very expensive without adequate insurance for the flights) it's $5 a month covers the whole family.
Powell has everything you desire, parts of wapiti, happy to show you around and introduce you to a very very good real estate broker, JohnKendrick , they are origianl pioneers in Wyoming ( Kendrick ranch, kendrick mansion in sheriden, etc etc) and there is nothing he doesn't know about building, buying renting in Wyoming....consider renting.
4 bedroom houses on 5 acres are rented by our friends with everything included for $1400 a month, cheaper than a new mortgage by far for the same house.
hopefully Welcome to Wyoming! Glad to have more shooters
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