Move to Dubois or Pinedale? (Laramie, Jackson: appointed, sale, real estate)

[puff5655]

Considering moving from rural Alaska to the lower 48. These towns (Dubois and Pinedale) were suggested to me. I'd much appreciate if I could get some more info on them from people who are familiar.

The main thing is to find a town that will be a great place to raise our daughter (friendly/welcoming, no huge drug problems, low crime, lots to do outdoors).

Here's what else we're looking for:
-good fishing and hunting (with decent access)
-snowy winters and cool summers
-small town feel
-great schools (we're both teachers)
-lots of open country to explore through hiking and snowmobiling
-good scenery
-walkable downtown with more local shops than big chain stores
-happy/healthy kid/teen population
-a town that's not ultra-conservative (we lean left)
-affordable real estate
-some ethnic/socioeconomic diversity (not 100% white middle/upper class)

Thank ya!

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by puff5655

Considering moving from rural Alaska to the lower 48. These towns (Dubois and Pinedale) were suggested to me. I'd much appreciate if I could get some more info on them from people who are familiar.

The main thing is to find a town that will be a great place to raise our daughter (friendly/welcoming, no huge drug problems, low crime, lots to do outdoors).


Here's what else we're looking for:
-good fishing and hunting (with decent access)
-snowy winters and cool summers
-small town feel
-great schools (we're both teachers)
-lots of open country to explore through hiking and snowmobiling
-good scenery
-walkable downtown with more local shops than big chain stores
-happy/healthy kid/teen population
-a town that's not ultra-conservative (we lean left)
-affordable real estate
-some ethnic/socioeconomic diversity (not 100% white middle/upper class)

Thank ya!

Let's start "at the beginning", OK?

Please define "affordable real estate". Do you have a budget range? Do you need local employment income to make a living here?


some other considerations, not necessarily in any order of priority:

"snowy winters/cool summers" ... Yes on the snow. Reasonably cool summers. At 7,000' elevation, the mountain climate prevails.

"small town feel" ... Yes on both ... very much small towns. Dubois smaller population base at about 1/2 the size of Pinedale, but both small towns.

"good fishing and hunting", "lots of open country", "good scenery" ... Yes on both

"walkable downtown" ... neither has much of a "downtown" district, these are small towns. Dubois has a larger commercial area than Pinedale, but both are very limited in scope. Your basic shopping needs can be met locally, but without much to choose from. Seasonal tourist traffic drives a lot of each town's economy with YNP as the "big draw".

"great schools" ... you may be disappointed on this issue. Small student body numbers ... Dubois HS has around 50 students so even with a 10:1 student/teacher ratio, there's not a lot of on-site resources and not much, if any, racial diversity if that's an important issue to you. While both HS's may be "above average" on some test scores by Wyoming standards ... well, it's just not saying much. As pro's in the teaching biz, I've no doubt that you have a better perspective on the issues that concern you, so I suggest you do your own research on this. Lots of info available on the school and community websites.

"some ethnic/socioeconomic diversity" ... Yes, but not necessarily in a way you're expecting. There's a wide range of economics here ... ranging from very wealthy to folk just getting by. Little ethnic diversity in these towns.

other demographic considerations ... best left for you to come visit and decide for yourself re political leanings, teen activities, etc.

PS: you may want to get some other perspectives about moving to small remote towns in Wyoming, such as found on "best places in America" reviews. Check out: Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not ok. While I don't agree with some of the points made in that thread (on either side of the issues), there's a great deal of validity to the fundamentals which may have triggered such a write-up.

As well, I've some friends from my years in Colorado who were born/raised in Dubois and their comments on why they left the area generally support the negatives mentioned in the above "best" comments. So while my adventures in the Dubois area ... recreational visits ... were, for the most part quite enjoyable ... there certainly may well be serious negatives to be found there. My friend that bought commercial properties in Dubois definitely had frequent problems with local businesses failing repeatedly, unable to pay their rent/utilities/overhead expenses; he tried his best to tough it out but after a decade decided that being a commercial property landlord in Dubois wasn't being compensated and sold out at a significant loss.

PPS: Having spent some nights in the last three years in Pinedale, it's also a study in contrasts. Lots of new commercial activity, especially around the airport area ... and yet one sees the older commercial properties in town clearly in distress situations. Some have recently been renovated, indicating new money coming into the area with a vision to revive older businesses ... motels & restaurants and small shops. But hard to say if they're really making it or not at this point.

Good luck with your search. As always, I urge you to come visit the locales under consideration and do your own due diligence re taking up residency in the area. There's a huge gulf between the realities of a tourist visit and residency there.

[rya700]

Not sure I'd bank on both of you landing a teaching job in such small districts. To my understanding it's competitive in Wyoming for teaching jobs as the pay is more here than in neighboring states. There were recent budget cuts made to education by the state legislature. Not sure of all the details. Both counties, sublette and Fremont are "red." Teton county was the only "blue" county in the state in the presidential election.

[puff5655]

Thanks so much for the in-depth responses. We will plan on visiting some towns next summer but want to have it narrowed down to a few options before we go.

Real estate- we'd like to be able to buy a 1000sf home on 1+ acres of land, with a decent view of open country. Max we can afford will likely be around 250-300K. Depending on many factors (jobs, sale price of current home etc.)

In terms of the downsides of small towns- small schools/less resources, small downtown area, etc., we are used to that. Right now we live in a very town with 200 students K-12, and our downtown basically consists of 2 grocery stores, a hardware store, a church and the post office. It's just nice to be able to park in 1 place and walk to do errands.

Jobs- we have been in a position before where I taught and my husband substitute taught for a year. We find that rural areas ALWAYS need subs. So we're open to that. We will definitely do some district research though. Once we know where we want to move, we can keep our eyes peeled for positions opening. There's no hurry on this move.

Any ideas on similar alternative towns to look at?

PS Our MAIN concern is how welcoming people are. One time we lived in a gorgeous resort town (in SE Alaska) but the community, while polite, was just so cliquish. It was impossible to break in and make friends. After a year we still had zero friends and moved out. BUT in our current town, people really made an effort to welcome and get to know us, and we had more friends than we could count within the first month. Polar opposites.

[puff5655]

Maybe Lander should be a consideration?

[Brian_M]

I'm a Lander native (from decades ago, my folks lived there for 40 years and I last lived there 2006~2009), and that's more the right Size for most things you want. Lander is very heavily involved in Government, so there's a lot of that well-to-do white population that helps sustain a small artist and small business environment. It's also maybe a touch less Staunchly conservative than some other areas.

But I don't think you're going to get to choose. I suspect that if you want to live in Wyoming, you will be forced to take a job and live where that job is located.

It's nice to daydream and plan, but without income you're kinda up a creek without a paddle.

[Wyoprairie]

In some respects, Lander may be more what you would be seeking. Considering Pinedale and Dubois:

Real Estate. 250-300k with an acre or more will be pretty much minimum. Under 200k in Pinedale or
Dubois means a doublewide, modular, or older home that needs fixing-and probably less than an acre.
Pinedale housing has gone up with the influx of higher paying energy jobs and people that are moving
over from Jackson. Dubois has always been somewhat pricey-it is a summer home area and a house on
an acre or more could easily be in the 400 plus range. South of Pinedale are the Pinedale Anticline and
Jonah Basin natural gas fields. They've quieted down some because of the gas glut, but a new project
may bring additional drilling to the area, and will once again "boom" Pinedale and bump housing costs.

Both towns are near to snowmobiling and hunting, but neither of them, or basically any town in WY, is
up in the trees, so to speak. They are surrounded by rolling, sagebrush covered hills. Dubois is at the
top of a valley that doesn't get a lot of snow. For perspective, Dubois gets 35 inches annually while on
the other side of WY, Torrington-a plains town with a much milder or hotter climate-gets 31 inches. As
you go west of Dubois up Togwotee Pass, there is a lot of snow. Below Dubois is the "badlands" which
are considered a "banana belt" and get not much snow all the way to Crowheart. Housing west of town
in the snow belt is mostly summer places and dude ranches. Access in winter would require snowplow.
Also the Lava Mtn fire in 2016 was hard on this area. I have friends with a summer place up there and
while their house survived the fire, their view is now blackened trees. There is snowmobiling up there
and north of Pinedale as well, and west of Lander, too, for that matter.

Ethnic and socio-economic diversity. In Wyoming, not much. We're one of the least "diverse" states.
The reservation is about it, or the few Mexican people working behind the scenes in Jackson. Dubois,
Crowheart, Morton, and Pavillion are the most conservative towns in Fremont County. Lander is a bit
closer to being a hipster/libbie type of town. Even in Teton County (Jackson) Republicans outnumber
the Democrats.

Education funding is taking a hit. Current budget proposal cuts 45 million over the next 2 years-they
are wrangling over it right now, as other proposals cut much more money out. Economic recovery is
coming slow-our economy is cyclical and has been down, but not nearly as much as past downturns.

[Wyoprairie]

So here's what I mean about Dubois and snow. Today's road cameras: Plenty of snow up on Togwotee
Pass, but dry in Dubois. Not unusual. And the 3rd one is what Pinedale looks like-Fremont Lake and the
Windy's in background.

[Ltdumbear]

Uhmmm....LARAMIE ? because...(wait for it...wait for it...) University of Wyoming is there ?

annnnnnd because wherever one finds a college-campus...one also tends to find a 'slight' increase in liberal/progressive mindset...I mean...at least compared to what one would come to expect in a blue-collar WORKING CLASS environment ?

Young-minds 'full of mush' generally require OLDER minds, well-trained in the oh-so-delicate-art of DISCIPLINING younger-minds...

...seems like a 'no-brainer' to me...but I am not trained in education...nevertheless, Laramie offers quite alot to one who assimilates well to the unique-type of 'urban/rural-mix' found in small areas of Wyoming.

[jody_wy]

there is Star Valley too, surrounded by 3 national forests... but conservative...High School gym is full of banner's of State Championships from sports , dance , speech ....