College education bashing (eligible, places, coworker, requires)

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by annerk

You assume that all high school graduates are illerate or incapable of critical thinking. Of course I wouldn't tell the stoner who still has to wear velcro sneakers because he never learned to tie his shoes to work his way up the corporate ladder.

But for the brighter kids who were considering pursuing some sort of a career in "business" but weren't really sure of exactly what they wanted to do, I would most definitely encourage them to not go right to college, but instead to get a job working in an office environment and to go from there. After a few years working 9-5 they might decide it's not for them and enroll in trade school to be a plumber.

College isn't for everyone but I was one of those bright kids who went to college undecided and very fortunate that I did as I found it difficult to locate work while I was in college. Doors did not open for me until AFTER I graduate. This is my experience where college paid off just as your experience was an example of where college did not help you attain your career aspirations.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by annerk

That's all well and good. And I shouldn't be proud of mine or should be looked down on for not having a degree? Do you think I worked any less hard?

Did I ever state that you should not be proud of your accomplishments? How about us both being proud of our respective accomplishments? Why does it have to be an either/or thing? Your accomplishments is no trivial matter and neither is mine.

[prinessdanika99]

Originally Posted by annerk

You assume that all high school graduates are illerate or incapable of critical thinking. Of course I wouldn't tell the stoner who still has to wear velcro sneakers because he never learned to tie his shoes to work his way up the corporate ladder.

But for the brighter kids who were considering pursuing some sort of a career in "business" but weren't really sure of exactly what they wanted to do, I would most definitely encourage them to not go right to college, but instead to get a job working in an office environment and to go from there. After a few years working 9-5 they might decide it's not for them and enroll in trade school to be a plumber.

As someone else pointed out, your success without a college degree is an exception not the norm. The examples of success without a college degree that you provide is a rarity. Whichever route a person takes to get a bachelors degree, it will be worth it in some way. Are you seriously going to advise a bright high school student who lets say has the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school or any prestigious university, to go straight to the workforce, and if that does not work learn a trade?

Or how about the many disenfranchised inner city minority groups, are you going to advise them to not go to college when most of them are probably at a disadvantage with just a high school diploma. Please do not say college is not worth it, that is the most foolish thing to say.

Come on, as you mentioned one of your posts it is not all about the money, but the experience. College could quite possibly be some of the best time of any individuals life. I dont once think about the outstanding debt I incured because there are a number of deferments or forbearance requests you can submit if you have any trouble paying off your loans. Please don't discredit the value of a college education, even a liberal arts degree. You do realize the majority of very good jobs out there require a bachelors degree. They do not say a bachelors degree is the new high school diploma for nothing.

However I do agree times have changed, and it would not hurt to at least learn a trade to compliment their advanced degree. There they can have a backup while always keeping there dream alive whenever an opportunity comes up.

[NSX]

A degree offers will always offer people more opportunities. As long as you have the brainpower and work ethic to handle the coursework, it is a chance worth taking. I would tell any high school graduate with a solid work ethic, GPA over 3.5 and a desire to go to college. Yes, it's not a guarantee of a wealthy. However, it will making the chances of having one a heck of a lot more likely.

The problem with not going into college is that, even if you learn a very specific skill-set, you will most likely be pigeonholed into a very specific career ( Chatteress mentioned this point earlier). A degree will just give you so many more choices. For example,I have two good friends with PhDs. A physics PhD from USC and a ChemEng PhD from MIT. Neither one of them are working in their fields. However, they both were offered great positions because they have demonstrated high intelligence with an extreme work ethic. The guy I mention with a Physics PhD does not use any physics in his job, but makes well over six-figures in technical management. He has no regrets because his education made him a more intelligent person and taught him a certain way of thinking which he can apply in any field.

It bothers me that certain posters on here try to make college graduates feel like "suckers" for having "wasted their money" on college. This is arrogant, condescending and couldn't be further from the truth. All this does is demonstrate jealousy and sour grapes.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by NSX

The problem with not going into college is that, even if you learn a very specific skill-set, you will most likely be pigeonholed into a very specific career ( Chatteress mentioned this point earlier). A degree will just give you so many more choices. For example,I have two good friends with PhDs. A physics PhD from USC and a ChemEng PhD from MIT. Neither one of them are working in their fields. However, they both were offered great positions because they have demonstrated high intelligence with an extreme work ethic. The guy I mention with a Physics PhD does not use any physics in his job, but makes well over six-figures in technical management. He has no regrets because his education made him a more intelligent person and taught him a certain way of thinking which he can apply in any field.

This highlights one of the great things about a science degree work wise. It can be used for specialization or as a general degree.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by prinessdanika99

As someone else pointed out, your success without a college degree is an exception not the norm. The examples of success without a college degree that you provide is a rarity. Whichever route a person takes to get a bachelors degree, it will be worth it in some way. Are you seriously going to advise a bright high school student who lets say has the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school or any prestigious university, to go straight to the workforce, and if that does not work learn a trade?

I guess you are another that failed reading comprehension.

Like I said, if someone doesn't really know what they want to do with their life, I think entering the workforce and working for a few years to get some experience and try a few things is a good idea. I never said they shouldn't go to college, although in my opinion unless you are rich or have a major scholarship, an Ivy League education isn't worth the debt it incurs. (As many recent Ivy Leaguers who are also among the unemployed will attest.) An Ivy League education is longer an express ticket to the top like it used to be.

Or how about the many disenfranchised inner city minority groups, are you going to advise them to not go to college when most of them are probably at a disadvantage with just a high school diploma. Please do not say college is not worth it, that is the most foolish thing to say.

College immediately after high school is worth it only if they have a scholarship and/or really have a focused idea of what they'd like to do for a career. Otherwise, working for a few years would be a better idea. They might find a career choice that doens't require an expensive education that they want to pursue, or learn about a career choice that they are keenly interested in that they were never aware existed, and very likely would not have found out about in whatever liberal arts track they pursued.

Come on, as you mentioned one of your posts it is not all about the money, but the experience. College could quite possibly be some of the best time of any individuals life.

I'm not talking about party experience, I'm talking about real life experience that translates to the professional environment. You simply can't compare taking a marketing class to writing marketing content, working with the layout team, negotiating pricing with printers, and supervising a print run to produce a marketing piece that will be mailed to 250,000 people. The real life, hands on experience (including the bumps in the road) will trump the classroom theory every time. That's why internships are so critical.

I dont once think about the outstanding debt I incured because there are a number of deferments or forbearance requests you can submit if you have any trouble paying off your loans.

Do you really think a forebearence will help the guy earning $40K a year with $120K in student loans? Get real. He'll be paying that debt back until he retires.

Please don't discredit the value of a college education, even a liberal arts degree. You do realize the majority of very good jobs out there require a bachelors degree. They do not say a bachelors degree is the new high school diploma for nothing.

I disagree that the majority of "good" jobs require a degree, because the word "good" is subjective. You might think a CPA job is a great job, I'd rather slit my wrists. As I've said repeatedly in this thread, there are career choices that do require a college education--mostly in the science fields. But there are plenty which put real life, hands on experience in the field far ahead of a college degree.

The people saying that the bachelors is the new HS diploma are those vested in higher education--professors and administrators. I've never heard a corporate executive make that statement, and I think it's a slap in the face of the majority of high school graduates.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by NSX

A degree offers will always offer people more opportunities. As long as you have the brainpower and work ethic to handle the coursework, it is a chance worth taking. I would tell any high school graduate with a solid work ethic, GPA over 3.5 and a desire to go to college. Yes, it's not a guarantee of a wealthy. However, it will making the chances of having one a heck of a lot more likely.

The problem with not going into college is that, even if you learn a very specific skill-set, you will most likely be pigeonholed into a very specific career ( Chatteress mentioned this point earlier). A degree will just give you so many more choices. For example,I have two good friends with PhDs. A physics PhD from USC and a ChemEng PhD from MIT. Neither one of them are working in their fields. However, they both were offered great positions because they have demonstrated high intelligence with an extreme work ethic. The guy I mention with a Physics PhD does not use any physics in his job, but makes well over six-figures in technical management. He has no regrets because his education made him a more intelligent person and taught him a certain way of thinking which he can apply in any field.

I've working in banking, I/T, sales, marketing, paralegal, insurance, journalism, and operations. Somehow I don't think I've been "pigeon-holed."

It bothers me that certain posters on here try to make college graduates feel like "suckers" for having "wasted their money" on college. This is arrogant, condescending and couldn't be further from the truth. All this does is demonstrate jealousy and sour grapes.

I think some people are suckers and have wasted money on college. "Secretarial science" degrees from for-profit colleges. Really? Really? "Women's studies"? How about the always relevent "philosophy" degree? $120K BA degrees. Yup, they are suckers. No jealousy or sour grapes, just common sense to know that I didn't make the same stupid mistake.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by annerk

Like I said, if someone doesn't really know what they want to do with their life, I think entering the workforce and working for a few years to get some experience and try a few things is a good idea. I never said they shouldn't go to college, although in my opinion unless you are rich or have a major scholarship, an Ivy League education isn't worth the debt it incurs. (As many recent Ivy Leaguers who are also among the unemployed will attest.) An Ivy League education is longer an express ticket to the top like it used to be.

Ivy league universities are not the only places one can earn a degree. In fact, those who cannot obtain any scholarships or other source of financing outside of loans should seriously consider a cheaper state university. Yes, the prestige of graduating from an elite ivy league can enhance the employment opportunities for some but for many others, it can be a waste of money if they are financing it primarily through loans. I received my bachelors and masters degrees from two campuses in the California State University system and only accrued 5K in debt as I was eligible for financial aid and had other means of financing my education. If the ivy league is out of someone's price range, then they should look into more affordable options such as community colleges and state universities.

[Colddiamond102]

There ARE people with degrees in things they dont particularly like, but are useful to their ultimate goal. Most people dont understand that though, and often sneer at me when they find that no, I didnt spend 30k+ on a BA, but got an AA in Bus. Management for free instead.

The 2nd degree will be started shortly, but is in a very specialized field that alot people dont even recognize what it is.

Also, your grades in high school often dont mean jack-squat.

[Renaldo5000]

Originally Posted by NSX

For example,I have two good friends with PhDs. A physics PhD from USC and a ChemEng PhD from MIT. Neither one of them are working in their fields. However, they both were offered great positions because they have demonstrated high intelligence with an extreme work ethic. The guy I mention with a Physics PhD does not use any physics in his job, but makes well over six-figures in technical management. He has no regrets because his education made him a more intelligent person and taught him a certain way of thinking which he can apply in any field.

For the love of Christ, you are bringing up examples of two people who got advanced degrees and who went to prestigious universities. Of course they will have doors opened for them by the mere fact of their advanced degrees and alumni status. But, what do you have to say to examples like my poor Stephanie in a prior post who will probably never get anywhere and who will amass thousands in student loan debt? What about Joe Schmo who got a liberal arts degree from Mediocrity State? The amount of money they spent and the amount of interest they will pay on their debt WILL NOT be worth it and you know it.

Originally Posted by NSX

It bothers me that certain posters on here try to make college graduates feel like "suckers" for having "wasted their money" on college. This is arrogant, condescending and couldn't be further from the truth. All this does is demonstrate jealousy and sour grapes.

It's not sour grapes. It has to do with me watching my friends with worthless degrees struggle as they try to pay $600 a month student loan debts while they live in **** apartments with four other people.