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Ultimately, this is what it boils down to. As a society develops, it's focus of GDP moves away from things like agriculture to simple production to more complex services. Yes, anything can be outsourced. However, EVERYTHING won't be. In fact, if you study things like the theory of comparative advantage, you'll see how trade benefits, why some jobs DO need to go overseas.We'll continue to do what we, as a nation, can do most efficiently compared to others. That goes on the individual level and the national level. Yes, we'll continue to produce SOME clothes, perhaps, and SOME electronics, but the bulk of labor will go elsewhere.
The key is to ensure that the transition isn't particularly painful, whether it is through UI or through retraining programs. However, protecting industries isn't the answer.
Once again, old old old ideas designed to placate us, that someday our prince (jobs that Americans can have a comparative advantage in) will come.
What comparative advantage do WE have over people in labor markets that have a very low cost of living compared to the American cost of living? More education is not going to do it, because they can be as educated as we can, and there are tons of educated people in the USA who have no job because it has already been outsourced.
What are we transitioning to? Can you tell us that? Certainly not information jobs. Or are you just going to say what the corporate media says when asked the question, "What jobs will come to the American employment sector that will not be offshore outsourced?" "Oh we don't know, we have no idea, but we think they are coming." "When are they coming?" "It could be decades." "What are we supposed to do now?" "We don't know."
You're right. Pretty soon all jobs will be gone except lawnmowers, barbers, and McDonald's. I wish I had realized that sooner.
And it's a fact that you can't predict what will come about in the future. I'm pretty sure someone from 100 years ago would not have any idea what's going on here now. My grandmother is always shocked and she's 80.
I don't even know where to begin since you're so set in your ways. So again, I'll say good evening to you. Hope you've got your bunker, ammo, and food ready for the coming Mad Max scenario when the US finally crumbles.
I don't WANT the USA to continue losing jobs and not creating them for Americans. I don't WANT doom and gloom, I want to prevent it before it's too late. Really, I don't want to be "right" about this, because who wins?
We can change things before it is too late. That is what I am trying to do. Gather support for Americans and American jobs OR get a comprehensive social safety net for those who end up unemployed or chronically underemployed.
As for what "someone from 100 years ago" thought, I don't think that is relevant. You are probably right, 100 years from now perhaps this problem will be solved in a way I could never think of. So what? I AM THINKING ABOUT AMERICANS HERE AND NOW WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED OR ARE THREATENED WITH IT DUE TO CORPORATE GREED. That is who I care about. Once again, I ask:
What comparative advantage do WE have over people in labor markets that have a very low cost of living compared to the American cost of living? More education is not going to do it, because they can be as educated as we can, and there are tons of educated people in the USA who have no job because it has already been outsourced.
What are we transitioning to? Can you tell us that? Certainly not information jobs. Or are you just going to say what the corporate media says when asked the question, "What jobs will come to the American employment sector that will not be offshore outsourced?" "Oh we don't know, we have no idea, but we think they are coming." "When are they coming?" "It could be decades." "What are we supposed to do now?" "We don't know."
**As for your snide "bunker, ammo, mad max" comment, we haven't seen real political unrest, riots in the street, massive looting, etc. in a very long time (Vietnam War protests and I was just a little kid; movement to stop segregation of blacks and I wasn't born yet). Unless you are of a certain age, you don't know how ugly it can get. Even though I am not that age, I can study the history and watch the footage and view the pictures.
It will get pretty ugly if people can't meet the basic needs for their very existence (if you don't know what that is, I refer you to Abraham Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs). I believe if we don't fix the unemployment problem, that can happen. I do not want any of that to happen. However, it very well could happen if we don't start creating jobs for Americans. Don't kid yourself into thinking "we are too advanced" and "only savages do that to each other."
I don't WANT the USA to continue losing jobs and not creating them for Americans. I don't WANT doom and gloom, I want to prevent it before it's too late. Really, I don't want to be "right" about this, because who wins?
We can change things before it is too late. That is what I am trying to do. Gather support for Americans and American jobs OR get a comprehensive social safety net for those who end up unemployed or chronically underemployed.
As for what "someone from 100 years ago" thought, I don't think that is relevant. You are probably right, 100 years from now perhaps this problem will be solved in a way I could never think of. So what? I AM THINKING ABOUT AMERICANS HERE AND NOW WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED OR ARE THREATENED WITH IT DUE TO CORPORATE GREED. That is who I care about. Once gain, I ask:
What comparative advantage do WE have over people in labor markets that have a very low cost of living compared to the American cost of living? More education is not going to do it, because they can be as educated as we can, and there are tons of educated people in the USA who have no job because it has already been outsourced.
What are we transitioning to? Can you tell us that? Certainly not information jobs. Or are you just going to say what the corporate media says when asked the question, "What jobs will come to the American employment sector that will not be offshore outsourced?" "Oh we don't know, we have no idea, but we think they are coming." "When are they coming?" "It could be decades." "What are we supposed to do now?" "We don't know."
**As for your snide "bunker, ammo, mad max" comment, we haven't seen real political unrest, riots in the street, massive looting, etc. in a very long time (Vietnam War protests and I was just a little kid; movement to stop segregation of blacks and I wasn't born yet). Unless you are of a certain age, you don't know how ugly it can get. Even though I am not that age, I can study the history and watch the footage and view the pictures.
It will get pretty ugly if people can't meet the basic needs for their very existence (if you don't know what that is, I refer you to Abraham Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs). I believe if we don't fix the unemployment problem, that can happen. I do not want any of that to happen. However, it very well could happen if we don't start creating jobs for Americans. Don't kid yourself into thinking "we are too advanced" and "only savages do that to each other."
While some larger firms may opt to outsource some of the jobs, the majority of businesses are smaller businesses anyway. Those aren't outsourcing, and can't. Even larger firms won't outsource everything, since it may often be inconvenient. Some jobs will go, but ultimately most will continue to remain here. It's not as bad as you think, but if you want to go psychology, correct me if I'm wrong: Isn't it the availability heuristic or something like that? (the one that makes you think airplanes are more dangerous than cars)
I just said I have no idea what we'll be transitioning to. No one can predict industries in the future. It appears alternative energy may well be one of them. But realistically, the best we can do is make a lucky guess. I just happen to feel with 100% certainty it's not as bad as you seem to think it is.
My Mad Max comment wasn't that there would be rioting in the streets and such. Rather it was that when our economic system collapses, it's every man for himself. Not like Vietnam riots. And no, I wasn't around for those days either. I'm 32.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roncorey1
Doctor HOOOOOOOeey!!!
You apparently have too much time on your hands since they took your show off of PBS!!!
That stinks! I was scared of the Daleks when I was 5. At least we have BBC America now, which carries the program. Or in Canada it's on CBC.
Thanks for reminding me: I guess I COULD just jump in the TARDIS and go find out what our future will be...
The government pacifies the unemployed with Unemployment Extensions and COBRA subsidies, that are paid by the taxpayers who are still working at the moment, while the corporations that offshore American jobs and bring in too many unnecessary foreign workers get off totally and completely scot free with their fat profits intact!
How long are we going to let this go?
The government also pacifies us with "the recession is ending because we are losing less jobs than expected." Woo hoo! So what? That's still half a million jobs lost in a month and no jobs replacing them! Really, are we this dense? Our economy runs on consumer spending. When the average consumer HAS NO JOB what is going to happen? If we don't care who will? Certainly not the big corporations who built their business and fortunes using the INFRASTRUCTURE created by our tax dollars and getting the CORPORATE WELFARE TAX BREAKS made possible by our tax dollars. Certainly not the politicians who are allowed to take money from corporations, PACs, etc., and who naturally advance the causes of those with deep pockets, not the causes of everyone else in America.
When offshore outsourcing and abuse of L/H visas became apparent a few years ago, the corporate-owned media tried to hush it up with outright lies, such as:
"Only the low level jobs will go offshore and these jobs will then create better and higher paying jobs for Americans." Ya, right. First of all, when asked, "What are these better and higher paying jobs that are only for Americans" the answer was "We don't know." It looks to me like existing "better and higher paying jobs" are increasingly being offshored, so what would stop new ones being offshored as well?
"Just like we switched from a farming economy to an industrial economy, we are now switching to an information economy, so it will take time for the new better jobs to be in place." So when they are asked, "How long will this transition take?" they answer "We don't know!" The transition from farming to industrial took at least 50 years. Are we supposed to wait 50 years for a job? Also, the good paying information technology jobs are being offshored and visa'd in just as swiftly as the offshoring of entry-level jobs like call center representatives or computer-related jobs like medical transcription.
We are being eaten alive here! What do you think will wake up Americans or will we never wake up or will we wake up too late? You may choose more than one option in this poll!
Good Lord... Does no one understand economics? It's only people who know nothing about it who continue to spread doom and gloom. Honestly, I don't even know where to begin.
All our jobs aren't going away. The only jobs left here will NOT be McDonald's jobs.
Distortions to international business and trade DO serve to reduce overall consumer surplus and serve as an impediment to further development. This was already discussed to a large extent in the Wal-Mart thread.
Keep telling yourself that, and tell those that are unemployed and have been so for months if not years.
I've never been much of a doomer and gloomer, but the OP has a good point, and your post merely seems to be an extension of the current philosophy in this country to continue down the same path of destruction.
That stinks! I was scared of the Daleks when I was 5. At least we have BBC America now, which carries the program. Or in Canada it's on CBC.
Thanks for reminding me: I guess I COULD just jump in the TARDIS and go find out what our future will be...
Well, apparently we DO NOT agree about a few things, but I DO have fond memories of watching reruns of Dr. Who on PBS in the early 80's...Tom Baker was my favorite.....
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