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I am 23, I am a computer programmer for a fortune 500 company, I got promoted less than a year after starting my job out of college (in the middle of a hiring freeze where my 40 year old manager wasn't given a raise), I have spent extra time studying new technologies so I can teach the older people who are unwilling to work a minute over 40 hours/week what they need simply to do their job.
Yes, you did run into the few exceptions. There are lazy people of every age, young and old. I could give you story after story of the older people who refuse to do anything that isn't specifically in their job description because they are too lazy to learn any new skill if you want. In my experience, the only people willing to go the extra mile to help out are under 30. Should we start a thread bashing people outside our respective age groups, or realize threads like this are inherently ageist?
and you feel you are typical entry level employee???? some of the resistance you are getting in training the old guys could be attitude on your part? tell me did you rub the bosses nose in the fact that you got a raise and he did not?
you have reversed the assertion. my views were developed by quantative 1st hand experience over a long period of time & HR decisions. your defense of our young entry level people fresh hires, is much like the defense of poor urban behavior. my views were developed from entry level people not from those seasoned and experienced in the job. people can improve its not about the age or the generation its about accepted ethics and values which are not acceptable in the workplace but are perfectly acceptable on the street.
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Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 09-29-2009 at 12:00 PM..
you have reversed the assertion. poor life skills social skills and work ethics you assert are rare among the young and equally evident in the older worker.
very similar to the our poor urban area defense of deficiencies, denial.
Laziness is blind to age.
I will readily admit there are younger people with poor life skills. Can you be mature enough to admit there are 40+ year olds who do the absolute minimum needed to pull home their paycheck? There are more than a few older workers who don't care about anything and anyone but their paycheck, and they will stubbornly refuse do anything that inconveniences them in any way.
Some younger people might lack life experience or work ethic, but many older people hide behind the term 'experience' and use it as an excuse. "I don't have to do that, I have been working here for 20 years."
Why would you want to save such people from getting fired? If a 24 year old (I'm 24) isn't mature enough to handle a job, they don't deserve one.
Everyone that acts like that at that age needs to be fired.
I've had it go both ways. Hired a trainee for $11 an hour with great benefits like health etc. That job would top out between $45k and $55k with five years experience but he was horrible.
He had a cell phone I wanted to shove up his a$$. The finger in the air as a signal for me to break off our conversation as he conducted personal business absolutely unfuriated me no end. I would walk by his office and he was talking on the phone when he should have been working on a project.
At 4:45 you would hear him packing up to leave at 5:00 as if 5:00 was going to signal the the start of the grand prix. He was never, not once, there at 5:01. Color him gone.
Then the lateness started and it became common for him to show up at 8:20 and I understand we all run late, I understand we all sometimes sleep throught he alarm but this happened nearly every day.
Work for me and sleep through the alarm once or twice a year and I would think nothing of it, when you wake up give me a call, tell me you slept through the alarm and I might kid you a bit but no big deal because we can all be guilty but this happened every day.
In my industry starting pay is typically around $10 but it is a training position that takes years to train for. There is a lot of learning involved and the learning takes effort on the employees part and I believe should be on their own time because pay goes up typically:
$20k first year
$25k second year
$30k third year
$40k fourth year
$50k fifth year before topping out around $65k to $75k the tenth year and this isn't in New York or San Francisco but Nebraska where one can live pretty well even on $25k,
It wasn't a pie in the sky promise he could have talked to any of 30 people who had trained in his position and they would have verified the level of pay for time and learning put in.
Some younger ones work well, they made it and live nice, secure lives but to many seemed not to acknowledge a company first needed to make a profit and a profit takes effort.
I would question the interview and evaluation skills of the hiring manager. That many bad apples?? Hmmm. Perhaps you should start looking at advertising the openings in different places.
You just saw the few that give the rest a bad name. I am 23 and can promise not everyone is like that.
You are correct. I know many people in their early twenties, working in different industries, who act appropriately.
While I've run across people in the workforce in their 40's, 50's, 60's, and above who are very inappropriate, those people are not able to retain well-payed positions and usually end up scraping by. I'm not talking about abusive supervisor types. I'm talking about disheveled appearances, gum-smacking, too open with personal problems while at work, and job-hopping. Once they reach their 30's, it's very difficult to get them to change their behavior.
I want to know what steps we can take to help a bright 20-something to adjust his behavior and not end up marginally employable.
I'd like to hear some good solutions from people in this age range. What would you need to hear to know you were screwing up, but don't give up?
I would question the interview and evaluation skills of the hiring manager. That many bad apples?? Hmmm. Perhaps you should start looking at advertising the openings in different places.
I haven't been directly involved in the hiring process, but the other employees are productive and easy to work with. The boss looks at coding languages, skill level, and education (including gpa). The personalities don't come forth until 6-12 months after hiring.
This coworker has revealed a sense of restlessness to us, which we chalked up to "graduation depression." The boss has offered to pay for a therapist.
i see the angry posts pop up whenever i try to talk about life skills and employment.
they swear young people are not like that and that we ran into a few rare exceptions.
the mantra of the 21st century. im not so bad we're not so bad its not so bad.
Yeah, the nerve of us uppity young folks to call you out when you reveal your ageism. We ought to get back in our place at the drive-thru window handing baby boomers and gen-Xers their combo meals.
and you feel you are typical entry level employee???? some of the resistance you are getting in training the old guys could be attitude on your part? tell me did you rub the bosses nose in the fact that you got a raise and he did not?
I feel for my industry (fortune 500 software engineers) I am very typical for an out-of-college worker. My boss is the one who gave me my raise - he personally talked to a VP to get around the hiring freeze. I also didn't tell a single person I work with I got a raise. No one found out until my boss mentioned it to my co-workers for me. I want to do well at work because I enjoy what I do, not to brag about it to the people I work with. If I was the kind of person who rubs accomplishments in the faces of co-workers, I probably wouldn't have gotten a raise.
I get resistance from older people about training because they think their way 'still works' even if a new technology can save tens of thousands of dollars and dozens of man-hours per year. I don't complain, I just stay late and do the extra work myself. I don't tell anyone I work with I do this (I am not a boss, it isn't my place), I just do it because I take my job seriously.
I think there are definately younger people who screw off and don't have my attitude. In the IT industry they usually end up at lower paying network tech or help desk kind of jobs. The people who take it seriously and have a good attitude ususally end up as software engineers of analysts of some sort. There are two types of people in college - people who spend summers at a crap landscaping job while drinking every night, and those who have internships, volunteer for extra work to build resumes, etc.
The attitudes of people like you frustrate people like me because people like me know the 'lazy 20 year old' is only one fraction of the population.
Ignoring the rest of us is like sticking your head in the sand.
I feel for my industry (fortune 500 software engineers) I am very typical for an out-of-college worker. My boss is the one who gave me my raise - he personally talked to a VP to get around the hiring freeze. I also didn't tell a single person I work with I got a raise. No one found out until my boss mentioned it to my co-workers for me. I want to do well at work because I enjoy what I do, not to brag about it to the people I work with. If I was the kind of person who rubs accomplishments in the faces of co-workers, I probably wouldn't have gotten a raise.
I get resistance from older people about training because they think their way 'still works' even if a new technology can save tens of thousands of dollars and dozens of man-hours per year. I don't complain, I just stay late and do the extra work myself. I don't tell anyone I work with I do this (I am not a boss, it isn't my place), I just do it because I take my job seriously.
I think there are definately younger people who screw off and don't have my attitude. In the IT industry they usually end up at lower paying network tech or help desk kind of jobs. The people who take it seriously and have a good attitude ususally end up as software engineers of analysts of some sort. There are two types of people in college - people who spend summers at a crap landscaping job while drinking every night, and those who have internships, volunteer for extra work to build resumes, etc.
The attitudes of people like you frustrate people like me because people like me know the 'lazy 20 year old' is only one fraction of the population.
Ignoring the rest of us is like sticking your head in the sand.
I'm twice your age, hnsq, but I couldn't have said this any better. You're absolutely right.
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