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As a Boeing engineer I am proud of the products we make. I worked in both the commercial and the defense side of the company, and both are very impressive, commercial for scale and defense for know-how.
This brings me to a sobering moment though that despite all this, there is fierce competition on the horizon. Airbus has slowly gained market share since the 1970s, but the world is happy with a duopoly right now. On the horizon, however, there are some countries with promising aerospace industries in the making. China has publicly stated its nationalized aerospace firm AVIC 2 will attempt to compete in the 150-200 seat range. Honda has considered teaming with Kawasaki and Fuji HI to design, build, and develop planes in the same class as well as Embraer (Brazil) and Bombardier (Canada).
Boeing also has heritage for - and against - it. The unions basically have a stranglehold on how productive the factory can be, and any attempt at automating any portion of it is immediately scuttled by the union by its refusal to help it. There's an initiative that is called "lean" by trying to eliminate waste. The progress being made, however, is pathetic. Compared to other industrial giants like Caterpillar, the waste and inefficiency is staggering. As an example, I toured a Caterpillar plant in Illinois and there were 8 people TOTAL in a building half the size of the Everett plant. I was told there were 50 workers total tending to the machines which automatically took delivery of raw materials, forged them, purified them, machined parts, took inventory, did fine machining, and assembled everything. What happened when someone floated the idea of something like that for the 737 line, from a young machinst? He got fired by the union for "threatening jobs".
When I took a tour of the Everett factory I lost count of how many lazy union machinists I saw sitting around doing nothing. I've been on the factory floor working some issues and have frequently heard the machinists complain about having to do actual work, and even one who admitted to swiping his buddies' badges at the gate and signing in their computers to make it seem like they came to work, when they didn't! And what do they get? Some of them get paid better than the engineers! I worked on the 787 on the airplane working some of the software issues and lost count of how m any times I saw machinist union guys either blundering or purposefully delaying work done on the plane.
It makes me sick. This all brings me to the point that Boeing has serious trouble in the next 5-10 years as the emergent companies prove their products are safe. There's bright people all over the world and it saddens me to see another American giant fall because of the stupidity of their management and laziness of their unions.
It wil probably not happen in my time at the company, but I predict eventually Boeing will fail.
As an ex-Teamster, I sympathize with you completely. The corruption in the union and their idiotic scizophrenic workplace policies are indefensible.
In theory, I'm totally in favor of labor unions representing the interests of the common worker. In practice, US labor unions are the closest thing America has to organized crime. It's a wonder any business can stay afloat with what we currently know as union labor.
I say throw all the bums out and start all over again. Unions can be a good thing. In their contemporary US incarnation, they are self serving, money sucking, business killing, organized crime.
When I was younger I didn't understand the whole union-thing -- all I heard was how you had to pay bribes to get things done in NY and stuff like that. WTF? Then I saw Far and Away -- I remember a scene in the chicken plant -- and it clicked. OH. That's why we need(ed) unions.
But where's the relevance now? Labor laws prevent the worst practices. I'm sure there are some nice things brought about by unions, but all I hear about are the abuses. Those bribes, if you want your booth to be set up at the show any time before the show begins, and no, you're not allowed to unload it yourself. They had to be factored into our small company's BUDGET. Or, my friend who worked at Kroger, who was pressured incessantly to join the union for CHECKERS. She didn't want her pay docked for the dues, but it became impossible to work there until she did, so she joined. (Then they went on strike and she lost even MORE pay).
But then there's evil, anti-union WalMart. I've seen them destroy more lives than I can count. (No, I don't shop there, and I didn't shop there even before moving here, and no, I'm not an activist against them because it's a hopeless cause). They don't have unions, and they treat their employees like sh*t. So, that's wrong too.
It is sad to move here thinking you're where they build all the best planes, and then see them cut down like this. It astonishes me how much money that someone with very little education and only a narrow mechincal skill can make. It's artificially inflated, just as it was in Detroit. Great jobs are a great thing, and I'm all for raising everyone's standard of living. But not at the cost of business in general, and it seems that greed is the driving role on every side. Employers' greed causes people to unionize. Union's greed bleeds the employer, sometimes to death. Greed greed greed greed. Sad.
Just curious, Esker:
The Machinists Union is hurting Boeing, you say....How about SPEEA, the engineer's union?
SPEEA is not so much a blood-sucking monster the machinists' union is, however, it is just as useless in today's world.
One of the functions of a union is to prevent employers from exploiting the workers. Nowadays, labor laws prevents most of that. So then their thing now is to get the best benefits and protect jobs. Well, SPEEA doesn't do that at all. They have a rating system which basically constrains Boeing management in who they can fire (worst performers first, then middle, then if things are really bad, they cut the creme de la creme). Since Aerospace is such a "small" pool, if one employer pisses in the pool, people notice and remember. The skills needed are tough to learn for new engineers, so there is incentive to keep them. So what's the point of keeping SPEEA? If they had a vote for young adults in the company, I think they'd be decertified.
As for the benefits, I think they're doing an OK job. Mean wages for the different levels of experience in engineering are pretty much par for the course. Which means I'm squarely middle class in PS area, but that's a whole other axe I have to grind.
In theory, I'm totally in favor of labor unions representing the interests of the common worker. In practice, US labor unions are the closest thing America has to organized crime.
Some unions, then I can agree. We don't hear much about the good ones.
Fixed. I think it is greed and laziness in general. China, Russia, Japan, and Brazil pose the biggest threats to Boeing (and to Airbus). And none of them have unions and they have their governments provide the political (and in China's case, the collective public will for a better life) will.
I agree unions, in principle, were meant in a bygone era there to protect the workers and provide living wages so that people aren't subject to unsafe work conditions and only get paid enough to live in abject poverty. But as I said before, labor laws prevent most of that now, so what is a union's function at Boeing? Every personal experience I've had, basically points to "The Union looks out for the Union, screw the company" which is the wrong approach.
I agree unions, in principle, were meant in a bygone era there to protect the workers and provide living wages so that people aren't subject to unsafe work conditions and only get paid enough to live in abject poverty. But as I said before, labor laws prevent most of that now, so what is a union's function at Boeing?
Labor laws do nothing about wages beyond the minimum wage. Unions are still needed for collective bargaining in some cases. Just not bad ones.
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