I guess the employer wins.... (self employed, unemployed, work, career)
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One reason I read these posts is to catch a glimpse of the current state of the American job culture. Why? Because we have to hire from this now contaminated work pool. I'm afraid CD is a pretty accurate representation nowadays. Fortunately it allows me to see the other team's playbook.
There are indeed 2 types of workers:
Users/consumers vs contributors/producers. Users are preoccupied with "their rights", "fairness", recreation/entertainment, and selfishness. They throw out terms like "40 hours", "work-life balance", "mandated by law", FLSA, and "I shouldn't have to ...". They absolutely love playing the victim card and believe they're constantly getting a raw deal by the employer. (One might call them Socialists.) They are easily recognized by their constant whining and displeasure toward anyone with authority over them.
Contributors/producers on the other hand practice hard work with a great attitude (this is KEY!), selfless serving (even toward causes they're not passionate about.), have a "long view/big picture" attitude, and understand the employer is NOT the big bad boogieman. They embrace capitalism and freely give away time for which they may never be compensated for. (Don't get me wrong; many have selfish agendas as well but they're smart enough to understand the food chain and that life is full of deal-making.)
The OP's position is apparent: He views "the company" as THE WINNER and the employees as THE LOSER. While he may present himself as a social justice warrior his motive is pretty obvious: The contributors are making him look bad.
Working an extra 2-6 hours a week? Are you kidding? Most user/consumers waste that much time weekly in their jobs; the least they should do is be willing to donate some "free time" as well to the company.
I smiled when I read the OP's post because it exposed his internal strife and torment... not because I wish him ill will but because I have great hope that self reflection may yield repentance.
and this is why the employer wins...very astute observation....
Actually, the employer already has "won" by the fact of it's employees not being unionized. Whenever you agree to work without an employment contract you have acceded to the notion of employer dominance--in everything you are asked to do on the job, in every disagreement with the employer, in matters of layoff, firing, hiring, promotion, demotion--everything...
This is just the tip of what employers have traditionally thought of as a the stuff of a "fair" work environment, if it's fair to the boss then it MUST be fair. I'm always a bit confused by those who actually have any expectation of their boss when working unrepresented, the old saying of unions not costing--but paying, is true. The flagrant violation of state employment laws are all part of the risk factors considered when companies decide they can operate outside of the laws, and many do with great success, and when caught the fines are minimal when considering the additional profits of unpaid labor..
Actually, the employer already has "won" by the fact of it's employees not being unionized. Whenever you agree to work without an employment contract you have acceded to the notion of employer dominance--in everything you are asked to do on the job, in every disagreement with the employer, in matters of layoff, firing, hiring, promotion, demotion--everything...
This is just the tip of what employers have traditionally thought of as a the stuff of a "fair" work environment, if it's fair to the boss then it MUST be fair. I'm always a bit confused by those who actually have any expectation of their boss when working unrepresented, the old saying of unions not costing--but paying, is true. The flagrant violation of state employment laws are all part of the risk factors considered when companies decide they can operate outside of the laws, and many do with great success, and when caught the fines are minimal when considering the additional profits of unpaid labor..
One reason I read these posts is to catch a glimpse of the current state of the American job culture. Why? Because we have to hire from this now contaminated work pool. I'm afraid CD is a pretty accurate representation nowadays. Fortunately it allows me to see the other team's playbook.
There are indeed 2 types of workers:
Users/consumers vs contributors/producers. Users are preoccupied with "their rights", "fairness", recreation/entertainment, and selfishness. They throw out terms like "40 hours", "work-life balance", "mandated by law", FLSA, and "I shouldn't have to ...". They absolutely love playing the victim card and believe they're constantly getting a raw deal by the employer. (One might call them Socialists.) They are easily recognized by their constant whining and displeasure toward anyone with authority over them.
Contributors/producers on the other hand practice hard work with a great attitude (this is KEY!), selfless serving (even toward causes they're not passionate about.), have a "long view/big picture" attitude, and understand the employer is NOT the big bad boogieman. They embrace capitalism and freely give away time for which they may never be compensated for. (Don't get me wrong; many have selfish agendas as well but they're smart enough to understand the food chain and that life is full of deal-making.)
The OP's position is apparent: He views "the company" as THE WINNER and the employees as THE LOSER. While he may present himself as a social justice warrior his motive is pretty obvious: The contributors are making him look bad.
Working an extra 2-6 hours a week? Are you kidding? Most user/consumers waste that much time weekly in their jobs; the least they should do is be willing to donate some "free time" as well to the company.
I smiled when I read the OP's post because it exposed his internal strife and torment... not because I wish him ill will but because I have great hope that self reflection may yield repentance.
So naive.
You write this post with the assumption that hard work will ultimately be rewarded. Perhaps not promptly or evenly, but your thoughts of unfettered capitalism collapse if most people don't see a reward.
Even so, I would support your concepts if there was a real world illustration of success. But there isn't, except for a few outliers. The much more common real world result is working a lot of unpaid hours, which puts pressure on all other workers to put in unpaid hours. The end result can be seen in our exempt workers today, who tend to put in more than 40, often much more than 40.
It is a function of relatively high unemployment/underemployment. Good jobs are relatively scarce, so people re competing to keep them, not so much for advancement. As a result, corporations can take advantage of people.
If we had a society with a scarcity of labor, hard workoukd probably result in advancement. Hopefully we get there again someday.
In any organization where I've worked, non-exempt employees are in more or less dead-end jobs. They would love to become exempt employees, work longer hours "for free," and get those big managerial paychecks and 401(k) and profit sharing contributions that salaried executives tend to get.
The IRS has a rule where they look at who gets such things as 401k matching, profit sharing, etc -- and if it is only the highly compensated individuals in a company, the deduction is disallowed.
The IRS has a rule where they look at who gets such things as 401k matching, profit sharing, etc -- and if it is only the highly compensated individuals in a company, the deduction is disallowed.
Interesting thought, but I doubt it.
Any compensation is taxable by the recipient, although taxation for anything in the 401k umbrella is deferred. Any compensation/wages for employees is a deductible expense for the company.
I would love to be proven wrong, so I eagerly await the citation of your source.
You write this post with the assumption that hard work will ultimately be rewarded. Perhaps not promptly or evenly, but your thoughts of unfettered capitalism collapse if most people don't see a reward.
Even so, I would support your concepts if there was a real world illustration of success. But there isn't, except for a few outliers. The much more common real world result is working a lot of unpaid hours, which puts pressure on all other workers to put in unpaid hours. The end result can be seen in our exempt workers today, who tend to put in more than 40, often much more than 40.
It is a function of relatively high unemployment/underemployment. Good jobs are relatively scarce, so people re competing to keep them, not so much for advancement. As a result, corporations can take advantage of people.
If we had a society with a scarcity of labor, hard workoukd probably result in advancement. Hopefully we get there again someday.
If you're salaried exempt, and you don't stay unpaid overtime you can be labeled "not a team player" or "not passionate enough" and fired. It's the fear which keeps you there.
PM me and I'll give you a list of examples. Most are in the automotive field in the Phoenix area.
Sounds like you chose the wrong field.
No need for a PM, I am happy to discuss in public. I certainly don't want any individual anecdotes with identifying information, as they wouldn't support your viewpoint in any case.
I am not denying that some individuals, in some areas, in some industries, have benefitted from hard work. My point is addressed to the population at large. We will always have 1%-5% who succeed for a variety of reasons. But for the majority of the country these opportunities simply don't exist.
If everybody were to enter the automotive industry in Phoenix, it would collapse. There would be lines of workers applying for jobs, only workers putting in ridiculous hours would keep their jobs or be promoted, and business owners would have a huge labour surplus they could pay cheaply. Which would result in other business owners starting up their own businesses, increasing competition, and driving others out of business. Layoffs occur. Real estate stands empty. Neighborhoods become blighted. All those workers then enter the widget industry in Albuquerque and start the cycle again.
As a society, how do we address the fact that business requires stability and a level playing field? Without that, business becomes risky and economies collapse. A certain amount of regulation is required, otherwise chaos reigns, which is good for nobody. Sure, individual business owners will want the regulations to apply to everybody but them, but that is simply trying to create an uneven playing field.
No need for a PM, I am happy to discuss in public. I certainly don't want any individual anecdotes with identifying information, as they wouldn't support your viewpoint in any case.
I am not denying that some individuals, in some areas, in some industries, have benefitted from hard work. My point is addressed to the population at large. We will always have 1%-5% who succeed for a variety of reasons. But for the majority of the country these opportunities simply don't exist.
If everybody were to enter the automotive industry in Phoenix, it would collapse. There would be lines of workers applying for jobs, only workers putting in ridiculous hours would keep their jobs or be promoted, and business owners would have a huge labour surplus they could pay cheaply. Which would result in other business owners starting up their own businesses, increasing competition, and driving others out of business. Layoffs occur. Real estate stands empty. Neighborhoods become blighted. All those workers then enter the widget industry in Albuquerque and start the cycle again.
As a society, how do we address the fact that business requires stability and a level playing field? Without that, business becomes risky and economies collapse. A certain amount of regulation is required, otherwise chaos reigns, which is good for nobody. Sure, individual business owners will want the regulations to apply to everybody but them, but that is simply trying to create an uneven playing field.
Going to "the extreme" doesn't promote credibility. Let's focus; the OP clearly stated 2-6 hours of "donated" time weekly. That's miniscule.
Hard work is always rewarded. If nothing else it creates an inner satisfaction that one gave their absolute best effort. And I would never argue that a small amount of regulation is necessary but the current gov over-reach blows the mind and ultimately stifles motivation and growth for the people who deserve the most credit: Employers.
There are many industries, at least in the Phoenix market that will obliterate your "1-5%" numbers. Heard a commercial the other day where an HVAC contractor will pay a headhunter fee to anyone who refers a valid new hire. And a signing bonus to the candidate.
Will be interesting to see if many unemployed college grads regret their chosen profession.
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