So You Want A $15 Minimum Wage? / What About All of Us Already at $12? (job offers, tips)
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Minimum pay did not go up a penny during the Bush administration. Think corporate profits did not increase? Think the cost of health care, groceries, and energy, etc. did not increase drastically anyway? It did anyway. The argument of wages vs. higher prices is insignificant.
so... after working 8 years, think their skills didn't increase? Why didn't they switch to a better job if they gained more skills? They can't just "stick" with the same job and complain about it either, why just do the bare minimum if you know it limits your growth?
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Sounds like my 83 year old stepfather that had a cushy state job for his entire career. Not everyone has the same connections, resources, or abilities as everyone else - it's "always been" that way.
of course not, he's 83... he worked longer than most people so he gained his skills and connections over time... it has "always been that way", because people gain things as they grow
This has always been the way it works. Life's not fair. I remember having an hourly job once, when the minimum wage was raised, and then I got to experience the joy of having someone who was brand new making as much as I did.
There is LESS money available for raises for long time employees when the min wage is raised.
Forget raises for just one moment and consider the immediate positive effect: If I made $12/hour for the past twelve years and began making $15/hour next week, that's more money for me. I don't much care if the 16-year-old who started yesterday will be making the same amount; it's about me, and I'd be happy about it. Do people always find a way to complain no matter what?
No, it's about how you view it; a raise is a flipping raise, no matter what. Who cares what young Bobby or Tina or Alisha are making? I'd do back flips and cartwheels if I'd made only $12 for years and suddenly starting making $15. It would be MY MONEY, and that's what goes in the bank, and that's what counts. Carrying around grudges and "what this will mean to my future" is just borrowing trouble and worry. Be happy for what happens NOW. No one is guaranteed a "tomorrow" anyway.
Only losers work for minimum wage. There are so many jobs out there that pay more than that and that don't require a lot of education or experience. Even waiting tables or bartending can pay decently. There are call centers, sales jobs, online work, etc. They might not all pay well, but they do pay more than minimum wage.
Forget raises for just one moment and consider the immediate positive effect: If I made $12/hour for the past twelve years and began making $15/hour next week, that's more money for me. I don't much care if the 16-year-old who started yesterday will be making the same amount; it's about me, and I'd be happy about it. Do people always find a way to complain no matter what?
Yes, of course.
Yes, but the problem is that if everyone is making that, then your wage is equivalent to a minimum wage income. That means that the person who was making $12 an hour will soon find themselves just as broke as someone who made $7.50 an hour. It'll take time, of course, but inflation will happen.
Only losers work for minimum wage. There are so many jobs out there that pay more than that and that don't require a lot of education or experience. Even waiting tables or bartending can pay decently. There are call centers, sales jobs, online work, etc. They might not all pay well, but they do pay more than minimum wage.
And your point is what exactly? You're so smart. Those losers might stand to make $15/hr. Now where are you with your high minded decent paying call center job? No shame in my game, I'd rather have the cash, thank you...
Yes, but the problem is that if everyone is making that, then your wage is equivalent to a minimum wage income. That means that the person who was making $12 an hour will soon find themselves just as broke as someone who made $7.50 an hour. It'll take time, of course, but inflation will happen.
??? Who cares whether it is "minimum" or not? Can it pay the rent, buy the groceries and keep the lights on? Yes? Then that's all that matters. If and when that proves not to be the case then things have to be revisited. I daresay that if the MW were to jump from $7.50 to even $10.00 it would take several years for inflation to catch up. Better than a sharp stick in the eye...
what i do know is this. i was at a hot dog place today and watched a woman slap a hot dog on a bun and throw some toppings on. she made an ice cream that came out of a machine, and slapped some fries in a bag. and by 2020 in Los Angeles if that woman manages to work 10 hours a day her employer will need to pay here $3,000 a month for building a hot dog and putting ice cream in a cup
that doesn't seem right or fair to the employer
Why do you care? That employer is part of a system that has a billion dollars in the Cayman Islands just sitting there. They have another billion that they acknowledge, but do not pay taxes on. Seriously, you feel sorry for them???!!!
I doubt it. You feel that $15/hr is too much to pay someone to build a hot dog, because right now people are being paid $15/hr to build file servers for Enterprise Networks. A valid contention. I submit, however, that you are approaching it from the wrong end. It is the IT worker who is underpaid, as well as the burger flipper! Gasp... you mean... $30/hr. to work in IT??? Yes. Exactly that.
You've forgotten about 30 years ago when IT guys were making six figures without so much as a 4 year degree in Liberal Arts let alone Computer Science. They would interview for the competition on their lunch hours in sneakers and their shirts untucked. Now companies ask for a 4 year degree, Certifications and up to 5 years experience and they offer $45K/yr (50hr day standard, overtime w/o pay likely, weekends likely, 24hr on call rotations likely). And you accept that this is as good as it gets. And you can just about make it work. Just about. But you are damn sure not going to be happy if burger flippers also make $15/hr. and I don't blame you one bit! But don't hit out at the flippers. They are an easy target. Low hanging fruit. You're better than that. Go for the big prize. Aim high. Squeeze the Fat Cats hoarding the wealth in the Global Economy.
In many cities $15/hr. isn't enough now. Better start practicing your Civil Disobedience the way the $7.50/hr workers are doing now. That will be you in a few years of ~3% yearly inflation. The retail cashiers, burger flippers and store greeters will have been automated or downsized out of existence. YOU will represent the bottom tier of paid employment. Average rent on an SRO in a sketchy part of town will be $1K/mo. You might be making $20hr. by then, but it still wont be enough unless you do something about it now. A push to index the minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index is a (hint) step in the right direction.
No one knows for sure what marketable skills will be in the future and you need to stop pretending like you know. If you are not willing to train an employee why should they keep working for you? How can you say they need to get skills yet you will not train them stop contradicting yourself. This is the problem with many business today the want the profits in having employees but want to pay and treat employees in whatever way they want. You can not have it both ways.
You want to know what is in demand tomorrow, then figure out what is in demand today and start learning how to do it, as it is unlikely to change in 4 years. But do not go off of lazy articles posted on some blog, go talk to people in careers that interest you, they ones in demand will tell you all about how hard it is to find someone that can do a certain job. I figured it out when I began to change careers as an adult 10 years ago when small business accountants told me that they needed a young person to come in and learn the business as they did not know what would happen to their business when they retired in a few years. Today my firm is growing while many accountants I talk to are getting ready to retire and looking to move their clients to someone like me.
As for not training employees, continuing education is something I do provide, but taking someone fresh out of college who got their degree and putting them to work as a full accountant is not going to happen. I keep y people because I treat my employees well and pay above market wages, which allows me to pick and choose who I hire. My turnover is very low, and right now I am hiring a new employee to help with the growth.
Why do you care? That employer is part of a system that has a billion dollars in the Cayman Islands just sitting there. They have another billion that they acknowledge, but do not pay taxes on. Seriously, you feel sorry for them???!!!
I doubt it. You feel that $15/hr is too much to pay someone to build a hot dog, because right now people are being paid $15/hr to build file servers for Enterprise Networks. A valid contention. I submit, however, that you are approaching it from the wrong end. It is the IT worker who is underpaid, as well as the burger flipper! Gasp... you mean... $30/hr. to work in IT??? Yes. Exactly that.
You've forgotten about 30 years ago when IT guys were making six figures without so much as a 4 year degree in Liberal Arts let alone Computer Science. They would interview for the competition on their lunch hours in sneakers and their shirts untucked. Now companies ask for a 4 year degree, Certifications and up to 5 years experience and they offer $45K/yr (50hr day standard, overtime w/o pay likely, weekends likely, 24hr on call rotations likely). And you accept that this is as good as it gets. And you can just about make it work. Just about. But you are damn sure not going to be happy if burger flippers also make $15/hr. and I don't blame you one bit! But don't hit out at the flippers. They are an easy target. Low hanging fruit. You're better than that. Go for the big prize. Aim high. Squeeze the Fat Cats hoarding the wealth in the Global Economy.
In many cities $15/hr. isn't enough now. Better start practicing your Civil Disobedience the way the $7.50/hr workers are doing now. That will be you in a few years of ~3% yearly inflation. The retail cashiers, burger flippers and store greeters will have been automated or downsized out of existence. YOU will represent the bottom tier of paid employment. Average rent on an SRO in a sketchy part of town will be $1K/mo. You might be making $20hr. by then, but it still wont be enough unless you do something about it now. A push to index the minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index is a (hint) step in the right direction.
You are right, everything you mention is on the way out, because you and other protestors are more worried about how much someone else makes than you are about improving your skills. There are people on this very board that make well into 6 figures working for someone else, but that takes more effort than it does to complain.
You are right though the cost of living has increased over the last 30 years, and it will increase even more when wages rise. The fact of the matter is all our costs have went up from the costs of natural resources going up. A raise in minimum wage is just going to be another factor driving those costs, and with this now being a world market it will be even more cost effective to outsource or automate low skill jobs.
Also I have no idea who owns the hot dog carts in LA, but most of them in Denver and northern Colorado are not owned by a billion dollar company, they are owner/operators and struggling to survive, some even having part time jobs to help pay their bills. They are far from wealthy, and usually sunk every penny they had buying the cart, getting it licensed, and finding the right locations to work those carts. All for a dream of not having to work in a corporate world surrounded by cubicles.
In fact half of the country that works outside of government works for small business owners, and many of those small business owners struggle to give themselves a paycheck every month. In my business depending on which clients checks come in the mail today I will be lucky to net out $500 income this month, and I am lucky as many of my competitors lose money 8 months out of the year, they do not even dream of breaking even in what is historically the worst month of the year in small business accounting. But my employees as well as all my competitors employees all get their checks as long as the company has money, otherwise they get laid off and draw unemployment which I pay into on their behalf, and will never see a penny from.
As I said if the minimum wage gets increased as much as protesters want then I am sending 2 jobs to India, and keeping 1 of the 3 of the lower wages, I have an email from this morning from a guy I started talking to 6 months ago about finding the right people over there at a decent cost. I am trying to keep the money in my local community, but the fact is I will no longer be able to do it if this raise goes through, as my contracts with my business clients guarantee prices for at least a year, and it will either destroy my business or I will be homeless trying to pay my staff 85% more than they are getting as that will be what we are discussing for those of us in Colorado.
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