Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A MBA at a top b-school is well worth the cost. When I say in the top, no where outside the top ten, sans a few schools with very rich networks, such as Ross at the University of Michigan.
A good school is always a plus when you look for your first job or looking for internships but after you get your first white color job it does not matter if your degree is from a community college or Harvard. A college degree guarantee little but if you graduate with something more marketable your chances of getting something back from that degree is higher.
For most people – higher education gives very little back financially and with the current market and trends in higher education, a college degree will be worth less and less. I think it is just a matter of time until technical degrees will take a turn downwards. This is true in Finland, were technical degrees are very common, created an oversupply of workers, when Nokia took a financial hit and in the end was sold to an American company.
A safe investment is always a degree in medicine or dentistry – sure, they have their downturns like in Germany in the 90s but it is rare. In the end I think college education is a waste of time – a sound trade degree would be better for most people. In a near future – I think most white color job will be replaced by computers. A lot of secretary and assistant jobs (blue color office workers) have been replaced by computers – and I think it is just a matter of time until other white color jobs like accountants are replaced. Technology, work-force immigration (they are called refugees in Europe and Illegal immigrants in United States) and out-sourcing of jobs to Asia will close the job market for many people. I think the “upper middle class” and the economical elites are pretty safe but things will be pretty bad for the middle class. Personally, I have little trust in Western governments and their ability or will to solve the slow downturn of Western Civilization.
Shame... I fully agree.
I will be gone by then, but it appears there is a lot of pain coming until societies move away from ultimate capitalism or the world population shrinks dramatically.
A MBA at a top b-school is well worth the cost. When I say in the top, no where outside the top ten, sans a few schools with very rich networks, such as Ross at the University of Michigan.
With the way the bachelor's degree has basically become the new high school degree, I don't see there's any way we can turn the tide back now even if we want to. I think it would be more a question of employers suddenly and randomly deciding en masse, that they're getting effete elitists burrowing around amongst the bachelor's, and start demanding people only have high school educations. Otherwise I envision master's degrees being in demand until the point when they, too, become the "new normal".
A safe investment is always a degree in medicine or dentistry – sure, they have their downturns like in Germany in the 90s but it is rare. In the end I think college education is a waste of time – a sound trade degree would be better for most people. In a near future – I think most white color job will be replaced by computers. A lot of secretary and assistant jobs (blue color office workers) have been replaced by computers – and I think it is just a matter of time until other white color jobs like accountants are replaced. Technology, work-force immigration (they are called refugees in Europe and Illegal immigrants in United States) and out-sourcing of jobs to Asia will close the job market for many people. I think the “upper middle class” and the economical elites are pretty safe but things will be pretty bad for the middle class. Personally, I have little trust in Western governments and their ability or will to solve the slow downturn of Western Civilization.
Actually there's a trend recently of law firms giving up secretaries, and making the attorneys do their own work. This of course is possible only because with the advent of personal computers, the generation of (mostly male) lawyers who were raised thinking that typing is "women's work" are aging out and now a good many people can type fast, but it still doesn't mean the work goes away nor that the lawyer will ever be able to type 200 words a minute. (Though perhaps this could provide employment for the glut of newer lawyers graduating, as the older ones being their own amanuensis wind up burning out on the overwork, so a bright side...?) I think they would really need to greatly improve voice dictation technology before executives can go without assistants entirely but that's probably coming.
I emphatically agree about the trade schools, nowadays we tell everyone with 110 IQ and higher that it is both a necessity and their birthright to cram themselves through the most expensive 4-year degree program that will have them. Problem is we know there aren't nearly enough jobs for all these young people, which is doing them a major disillusioning disservice, as some wind up living with their parents until they're 30 and similar.
I will be gone by then, but it appears there is a lot of pain coming until societies move away from ultimate capitalism or the world population shrinks dramatically.
Yeah, the future of the working and middle class is gloomy. When industrialism was introduced to Europe millions of people ended up in poverty and so they left for United States and Canada to find work and help colonize the west. Today, when the former colonies also are slowly going down I do know where people of European decent will turn. I doubt that China will let millions of Europeans emigrate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskittytalks
Actually there's a trend recently of law firms giving up secretaries, and making the attorneys do their own work. This of course is possible only because with the advent of personal computers, the generation of (mostly male) lawyers who were raised thinking that typing is "women's work" are aging out and now a good many people can type fast, but it still doesn't mean the work goes away nor that the lawyer will ever be able to type 200 words a minute. (Though perhaps this could provide employment for the glut of newer lawyers graduating, as the older ones being their own amanuensis wind up burning out on the overwork, so a bright side...?) I think they would really need to greatly improve voice dictation technology before executives can go without assistants entirely but that's probably coming.
I emphatically agree about the trade schools, nowadays we tell everyone with 110 IQ and higher that it is both a necessity and their birthright to cram themselves through the most expensive 4-year degree program that will have them. Problem is we know there aren't nearly enough jobs for all these young people, which is doing them a major disillusioning disservice, as some wind up living with their parents until they're 30 and similar.
Computers and E-mail has really change the need of assistants, secretaries and receptionists. I think most people are able to use computers, cell phones and pads at least in Western Europe, Australia, Canada and United States. In United States over 80 percent of the people have access to internet. In Scandinavia and Northern Europe those numbers are above 90 percent. Even in poor countries like Jamaica, Kazakhstan and Egypt about half of the population has access to internet. When it comes to writing, kids in western countries learn to write on computers when they are in early school age. A lot of, currently safe white color jobs like accounting, law, engineering will be heavily reduced in the future because of gains in technology and management and organizational efficiency. A couple of days ago I visited a fast-food restaurant – which had introduced a new system as a test. They still had people working in the counter and kitchen but there was also an option of choosing and pay your chosen menu using a computer screen. I know quite a few grocery-stores in Northern Europe whom has introduced a similar system. Currently, it seems a bit inefficient but I think it will just take ten-fifteen years until this system becomes common. Many people (college degree or not) end up working in retail but many of these jobs will be replaced with machines and so no jobs at all will be available.
Higher education is a way of hiding unemployment (rather than create equality, which is advocated by political, media and academic elites) and it had been that way for quite some time now. Political and academic elites look into the statistics and see that people with degrees fare better than those without degrees – but what they disregard is that it is a growing number of young (born in the 80s and 90s) with college degree who are under-unemployed (work in short-term projects or work below their educational level, like having a degree in social work and working a Mc-Job) or unemployed. Their situation is even worse (looking at personal debt) than for those who never went to college. Sure, if you are young and have a degree your chances are better than for those with no degree at all but the beneficial- margin is slowly shrinking, when disregarding the statistical volatility. This gives a negative side-effect on the job-market. People, with no education, whom once would work in retail or low paying jobs, are now being outmatched by college graduates whom take their jobs. A combination of technology, immigration, management and organizational efficiency and institutionalized financial crisis will create an impoverished under-class, quite a few of them will come from middle-class homes. Currently, you see it to its extreme in Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland but you will see it in Scandinavia and Germany too. The current political elite care nothing about it and even when their political power is under threat they will not budge a millimeter.
Yeah, the future of the working and middle class is gloomy. When industrialism was introduced to Europe millions of people ended up in poverty and so they left for United States and Canada to find work and help colonize the west. Today, when the former colonies also are slowly going down I do know where people of European decent will turn. I doubt that China will let millions of Europeans emigrate.
Sadly, we have too many people and not enough need for their labor. Many industries that were once labor intensive, like coal mining, have become much less so due to increased worker efficiency, mechanization, the resource being depleted, etc. Some of the people who were miners may now be working the equipment doing the mining, but many are displaced and stuck at Burger King.
I think we will get to the point where there will have to be some sort of guaranteed income to prevent social unrest, and as a conservative, that sickens me.
Sadly, we have too many people and not enough need for their labor. Many industries that were once labor intensive, like coal mining, have become much less so due to increased worker efficiency, mechanization, the resource being depleted, etc. Some of the people who were miners may now be working the equipment doing the mining, but many are displaced and stuck at Burger King.
I think we will get to the point where there will have to be some sort of guaranteed income to prevent social unrest, and as a conservative, that sickens me.
Well, I’m not keen on a basic income and most people do want to work. You don’t want people walking around doing nothing. Australia has a basic income for aboriginal Australians. The consequence is high level of social problems – like alcoholism. I think one solution would be to lower the population by reducing immigration until the market is balanced.
OTOH I know folks who literally have gone to Harvard, earned Bachelor of Science in Physics and honestly barely make a living teaching science at private schools. They never really had any social skills and are clueless when it comes to fairly basic thinks like "networking" or interviewing....
I haven't seen it to that level.
What I have seen is some Ivy League grads (mostly of the bottom to middle schools, Brown, Cornell, UPenn) working the same type of job that I work. Which is middlin' professional. Depending on who you are talking to, they might be impressed with what you do. But it's pretty mediocre in terms of prestige and pay.
Just about everyone I know from the top Ivy schools (Princeton, Yale, Harvard) has gone on to do pretty impressive things. Relatively.
On the other hand, graduates of schools just below that level ... the Hopkins, Northwestern, Michigan, Berkeley, UVA, Wake Forest etc, I have seen people who are not only not better off than anybody else, but have struggled mightily at times.
I know a lot them, and they do widely different things.
Basically, your school won't help you that much unless you go further in school or go to like a Top 5 school.
My employer makes it very clear to me that my Masters degree from MIT means nothing to them, and that I wasted my time, and that they believe I went to grad school to postpone the real world. And they are quick to remind me that I'm sitting 5 feet away from people who cheated their way through mediocre schools. My previous employer had basically the same attitude.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
