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Consider cavepeople. If you don't kill an animal or find some edible plants, you do not deserve to eat.
If you don't learn, you die.
Plain and simple.
If you can't perform a job that you want, you don't deserve it.
P.S. I didn't read the 10 pages, just the original post.
Interesting. And if we still lived in an agrarian society where everyone could just work the family farm or hunt and gather in the wild, this idea might still hold merit... but that's not how an industrialized society works.
I'm reasonably certain at no point in human history were the following phrases (inspired by modern hiring practices) uttered by the hunter-gatherers you are discussing:
"Well, you have great hunting skills and clearly know what you're doing, but we've decided to instead have as few hunters as possible on this hunt so we can maximize our profits from them. I mean, sure, they might all die or not be able to carry their prey back, but at least our costs will be kept low."
"Ah, so you're an experienced gatherer of fruits and nuts who's been at this for years and who knows where the best food is and what is safe to eat and what isn't. Well, while that knowledge would be useful to us, we don't hire old people since it might drive up our healthcare costs."
"So, you're looking to join our hunting party and have the needed skills? Well, that clearly means you're not currently working. We don't hire the unemployed, so tough luck."
"I see you are a master at killing prey with a flint-tipped spear attached to an oak shaft. That's nice, but our tribe uses flint-tipped spears attached to yew shafts. Clearly, you're not qualified for this job."
"While we'd really like to have you in our hunting party because of your skills, we've instead decided to take the tribe leader's son with us, despite him knowing nothing and possibly getting us all killed in the process."
Summary: I assume you can see what I'm saying here. Modern hiring practices - all of them parodied in the above doomed hunter-gatherer tribe - have no place in an meritocracy. Except the world is not a meritocracy; it is ruled by connections, luck, greed, and stupidity, and there aren't enough jobs to go around.
Oh, final note - even our primitive ancestors were not heartless enough to simply let the weak and injured starve to death, so saying "back then, if you didn't work, you didn't eat" is not an accurate statement. I suppose if somebody able-bodied CHOSE not to work, that would be different, but since nobody here is CHOOSING to be unemployed, that comparison doesn't matter. Back then, there was no such thing as "not enough jobs for everyone" so they didn't have to worry about the problems our modern society has created.
Last edited by Rambler123; 03-12-2014 at 02:50 PM..
So, what's your solution? You admit that there aren't enough jobs, but saying "I feel bad for them" is not a solution. Nor is, "well, that's the way it is" or "life's tough" or countless other answers. How do these people pay their bills in a world without enough jobs? And why is it that we demand NOTHING from the people who control the means of production, yet give nothing in return to people who've worked their whole lives and who just wish to continue to earn a day's wages for a day's work?
People are responsible for themselves. I have compassion for them but they need to solve their own problems.
What makes you think those who are out of work have done nothing? Again, just more stereotypes: "Duh... everyone who's out of work has never had a real job, has no education, is lazy, sits at home all day, and lives with their parents!"
Got any facts to back up those claims? Of course not. Rest assured that there are plenty of unemployed people far more qualified than those who love to bash the unemployed.
Any answer regarding the FACT that there are not enough jobs to go around? Or, is that also ignored in this little rant... I guess we're to believe that millions of Americans at the start of the Great Recession magically lost their education and experience and decided to be poor and unemployed... because that makes sense...
Glad things worked out for you. Are you ready to acknowledge the role luck played in all that, or are you one of those mythical "entirely self-made men" I hear so much about? You know - the ones who earned everything in life, no luck involved, and thus "everyone else can do it, too."
Believe whatever you want, but the facts don't support it.
The fact is that the unemployment rate in the US is under 7%. That's a pretty normal unemployment rate.
If you take a look at this: Bureau of Labor Statistics Data you will see that the unemployment rate was quite a bit higher for quite a number of years (1975-1985).
You are entitled to your own opinion about these facts but the facts show that the unemployment rate from your Great Recession peaked in 2010. It has been going down steadily since then. If someone lost their job in 2010 they have had FOUR YEARS to solve their problem. I am not about to call people lazy or stupid or anything unproductive like that but FOUR YEARS is plenty of time to solve a problem.
So their government, families, and fellow citizens have absolutely no obligation to help them?
Their families have an obligation to help them. The government has an obligation to provide short term relief for them. Over the long term they have to solve their own problems. I cannot be responsible for everyone who is unhappy with some aspect of their life.
That's why I said people owe me money but I deserve it because they owe me money. In the case of the phrase "no one owes you a job" it can mean the same thing because employers owe you a job if you're a good candidate for their business. It's just bad business otherwise if you discriminate people. Now granted there's nothing forcing them to but they SHOULD in this case.
Well I work for a small law firm. I am sure there are people out there who would be a good candidate for a job at the firm. However, the firm does not owe any of these people jobs. The firm does not need another employee right now. So while there are people out there who deserve a job, I don't think the firm owes them a job. The firm has added employees in the past year but there just isn't an opening right now.
If a job opens up and there are twenty good candidates who deserve the job does the firm owe all twenty of them jobs because they would all be good additions?
Well that's what you suggest when you say that fellow citizens owe help to the unemployed.
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