Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wrong answer. It's very much a living wage to those who live a modest life. Around here you can rent a 3BR house for $1000 a month. With two housemates it works to about $500 a month including utilities. How can someone making $20K a year not be able to afford $500 a month rent? They would still be able to afford a modest pre-owned late model car and have beer money for Friday night.
Your logic is flawed. There are plenty of people making enough to afford products. They are SKILLED workers with experience and/or education to back up their wages. They do more then push a button or pack cartons. Are you trying to tell me that unskilled workers should make $40 an hour? be prepared to pay $16 for that Big Mac. Look at what happened to teh USSR when they tried a pure socialist economy where doctors made the same as toilet cleaners. It led to a catastrophic failure.
List me some skilled workers. It's hard to swallow the idea of a $16 Big Mac yes. It's also hard to swallow the idea of a previously professional employed adult now working at McDonalds trying to figure out how to make their $7.25 put a roof over their heard when before it was a high school kid with no worries in the world making that Big Mac.
Wrong answer. It's very much a living wage to those who live a modest life. Around here you can rent a 3BR house for $1000 a month. With two housemates it works to about $500 a month including utilities. How can someone making $20K a year not be able to afford $500 a month rent? They would still be able to afford a modest pre-owned late model car and have beer money for Friday night.
You are thinking in a very small box here by assuming only recent grads should be working for $10 per hour. What about a family of three. By your logic they should be able to afford that $1000 per month, but in reality they would find it very hard, if not impossible. They have much more expenses than three recent college grads.
I know it's hard for you to grasp, but the people at the bottom are what pay your wages at the top.
Would the two high and mighty posters accept $10/hr today?
First off drop the "high and mighty" bit, it doesn't contribute anything to what is a fairly interesting discussion. If it makes you feel good to insult others, or if you believe throwing insults at others gives more weight to your argument I'm not interested. The topic is currently living wage.
No I wouldn't work for $10/hour, my skillset is worth more than that. If all I knew how to do was flip burgers I would.
First off drop the "high and mighty" bit, it doesn't contribute anything to what is a fairly interesting discussion. If it makes you feel good to insult others, or if you believe throwing insults at others gives more weight to your argument I'm not interested. The topic is currently living wage.
No I wouldn't work for $10/hour, my skillset is worth more than that. If all I knew how to do was flip burgers I would.
Who's to say all that's working for $10 per hour right now is a burger flipper?
I don't know, you tell me who said that. I sure didn't.
I merely pointed out that if I had a skillset that was worth $10/hour (flipping burgers in this case) I'd certainly accept a job paying $10/hour. That was your question, and I answered it, I made no claims to know or categorize in my post every $10/hour job so not sure where you're going with that. I'm sure a neurosurgeon wouldn't work for my current software engineer salary either, their skills are worth way more.
And I merely pointed out why companies pay people absorbant wages for jobs that seem very menial. I have a family friend who used to own his own used car lot and now he works on the line at the Toyota plant. His words were, "I make more pushing a broom, than I did selling cars." Your logic says he is overpaid. My logic, and obviously Toyota's logic is, he is paid a wage that allows him to hopefully buy the very product he produces.
Would the two high and mighty posters accept $10/hr today?
That's $1600 per month before taxes.
$19,200 per year before taxes.
Check your math.
$10 x 40 = $400. $400 x 52 = $20800 $20800 / 12 = $1733 After 25% taxes you'd have $1300 a month in net income.
Quote:
Not a modest, a garbage, in the wrong part of town one bedroom apartment for $500 equates to $6000 per year in rent.
Depends on where you live. Around here you can rent a nice newer 3/2 house with a yard and garage in a nice, safe neighborhood for $1000. Add in utilities and divide by three and it's $500 a month per person.
Quote:
That leaves you with $13,200 disposable income.
I come up with $800 after taxes.
Quote:
Car to get to work (can't get a job if you ride the bus) $250 per month. $3,000 per year.
Can't get a job if you ride the bus? That's pretty ridiculous in a lot of areas. But even if you buy a car, after the payment it's $550 left a month.
Quote:
Balance of $10,200 disposable income, all before taxes of course.
Insurance for said car, since you owe money you have to have full coverage. Lets assume here you served your country or maybe your parents did so you have USAA, have had no accidents, no tickets, and are over 25. Insurance is $80 per month. That comes to $960 for the year.
Balance is $9240.
$460/month after taxes in my math.
Quote:
Utilities for said apartment are $100 per month average. $1200 per year.
Balance is now $8040.
Lets say you have no cable or internet but at least some sort of phone at $100 per month. $1200 per year.
$6840 disposable income so far now.
I already included utilities and a basic cell plan with ample minutes is easily had for $40/mo. That leaves $420 a month.
Quote:
$200 per month for groceries so you don't have to eat out. $2400 per year.
$4440 is the ending balance so far.
Fair enough, now you've got $220 in disposable net income left.
Quote:
$100 per month in gas so you can get to and from work. $1200 per year.
$3240 disposable income.
$120 left.
Quote:
$200 maintenance per year on that vehicle you own at a minimum, assuming nothing bad happens.
$3040 disposable income.
I'll even up it to the round number of $20 a month. $100 left.
Quote:
$20 per month clothing allowance so you can appear professional at work $240 per year.
$2800 disposable income before taxes.
Many companies with lower paying jobs provide uniforms, but still you do need clothing. $80 left. And I'll even toss in $20 for a haircut, $60 left.
Quote:
Now lets assume 30% for taxes
Disposable income balance of $1960. That's what you have left over now to invest in your future, put back into the economy, or cover any incidentals.
I could do this, but I'm also single. What if you are married and have one child. Assume your spouse works for the same wage and all of their wages goes to daycare expenses. It's kind of scary now for me to think about it.
You wouldn't pay 30% in taxes making that income. It's actually around 20% total given the personal exemption, so you'd actually end up with more net income than after the 25% I used for this example .
So you'd have $60 left, and that's without any overtime. If you are worried about childcare expenses, you can do what millions of couples do, worth opposite shifts from each other to cut them out entirely or at least drastically minimize them. Or maybe just stop and think about it before you have a child you can afford to care for. Oh, and by the way, if you were making that type of income with a dependent, you'd qualify for welfare for the working, the EIC which would pay you back more than you paid in taxes to begin with. But that's a different topic altogether.
The point is, you get paid according the your skill level, what you contribute to the bottom line of the comapny. It's not the McDonalds franchise owners problem that you have eight kids to feed. Your personal financial situation should have zero bearing on what your employer pays you.
List me some skilled workers. It's hard to swallow the idea of a $16 Big Mac yes.
Skilled workers--that list goes on and on. Let's start with doctors, engineers, accountants, ASE certified mechanics, and licensed plumbers. Professional, white collar, and skilled blue collar all in one skilled labor list.
Quote:
It's also hard to swallow the idea of a previously professional employed adult now working at McDonalds trying to figure out how to make their $7.25 put a roof over their heard when before it was a high school kid with no worries in the world making that Big Mac.
The point is that the previous professional is doing the same job as the pimply faced high school kid. They aren't doing it any better or any worse, they are flipping burgers. All that should be taken into consideration is the job they are currently doing, not their personal financial situation or what they might be capable of doing in a different setting.
You are thinking in a very small box here by assuming only recent grads should be working for $10 per hour. What about a family of three. By your logic they should be able to afford that $1000 per month, but in reality they would find it very hard, if not impossible. They have much more expenses than three recent college grads.
I know it's hard for you to grasp, but the people at the bottom are what pay your wages at the top.
You are missing the point. Don't become a "family of three" if you can't afford it! Or do what many do, have the parents work split shifts to eliminate childcare costs.
And for the record, the people at the "bottom" where I work are "disposable." We have them lined up down the street for jobs. The skilled labor, now they are worth their weight in gold, and are well compensated for their skills and contributions. But it's a two way street, if I didn't bring in the business, none of us would have jobs...
$10 x 40 = $400. $400 x 52 = $20800 $20800 / 12 = $1733 After 25% taxes you'd have $1300 a month in net income.
Depends on where you live. Around here you can rent a nice newer 3/2 house with a yard and garage in a nice, safe neighborhood for $1000. Add in utilities and divide by three and it's $500 a month per person.
I come up with $800 after taxes.
Can't get a job if you ride the bus? That's pretty ridiculous in a lot of areas. But even if you buy a car, after the payment it's $550 left a month.
$460/month after taxes in my math.
I already included utilities and a basic cell plan with ample minutes is easily had for $40/mo. That leaves $420 a month.
Fair enough, now you've got $220 in disposable net income left.
$120 left.
I'll even up it to the round number of $20 a month. $100 left.
Many companies with lower paying jobs provide uniforms, but still you do need clothing. $80 left. And I'll even toss in $20 for a haircut, $60 left.
You wouldn't pay 30% in taxes making that income. It's actually around 20% total given the personal exemption, so you'd actually end up with more net income than after the 25% I used for this example .
So you'd have $60 left, and that's without any overtime. If you are worried about childcare expenses, you can do what millions of couples do, worth opposite shifts from each other to cut them out entirely or at least drastically minimize them. Or maybe just stop and think about it before you have a child you can afford to care for. Oh, and by the way, if you were making that type of income with a dependent, you'd qualify for welfare for the working, the EIC which would pay you back more than you paid in taxes to begin with. But that's a different topic altogether.
The point is, you get paid according the your skill level, what you contribute to the bottom line of the comapny. It's not the McDonalds franchise owners problem that you have eight kids to feed. Your personal financial situation should have zero bearing on what your employer pays you.
Given the current economy maybe somebody that had that many kids would be able to support themselves. I also wouldn't count on the welfare. I would check and see if somebody who makes $10 per hour even qualifies for welfare. Even if they could, I'm sure you would be on another thread talking about how lazy people on welfare are and why don't they make more money. My ex-wife makes $10 bucks and hour answering phones and I have to pay $800 per month in childcare expenses for her to do so. She's all about milking the system and I assure you she would be on welfare if she qualified.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
